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09 Griso 8V Running rough after a while

M

makarushka

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Mar 13, 2011
Messages
95
Location
Oakland
UPDATE while a specific problem that would explain all of this has not been found, after the following work the bike runs fine: while troubleshooting the oil leak around the heads (which turned out to be around the CPS and the crossover head oil delivery pipe), they have taken the heads off to check the cams and tappets (which were perfect), checked the IAC valve and all related hoses for contamination, stepper motor operation, changed cam cover o-rings, head gaskets, sealed cylinder head set screws, put everything together, cylinder sync as per the factory, tps reset. no fluid leaks anymore and the bike runs fine. END UPDATE

My 09 G8V has the 68 map and the stock exhaust. Tried the Mistral oval carbon but was not fully happy with how it ran with no fueling correction, so it's back to stock for now. The bike runs pretty smoothly until some 30-40 minutes into the ride, when it gets noticeably rougher and starts vibrating quite a bit more. Anything under 4K in any gear becomes very unpleasant and rough. I'd almost want to say that this SEEMS like some sort of temperature-related correction kicking in and that it's purely fueling-based, but it's only a gut feeling. This happens regardless whether the ride is pure freeway steady speed or hills and mix of gears, etc -- more like a timed effect, somewhere after a 30 minute mark. It seems to happen gradually, too -- not all of a sudden but cumulatively, until you realize the tone of the bike changed, it's boomy and rough.

Anyone might have an idea as to what to check?

The bike has barely over 1200 miles on it. Was fully serviced -- properly, only one idle screw open, sacred screw untouched, etc. -- at 800miles. Then after that service an all-familiar spark plug boot issue came up, and I saw the spark short-circuit to the head on the right cylinder side. I got the new NGK caps and installed them, so that is no longer an issue. Double-checked the throttle body sync and idle balance again just a couple of days ago. Spot-on... Checked and replaced the plugs just in case they got fouled when the bike was running with a cylinder misfiring due to that spark plug cap issue. The TPS is at 4.8; I've reset it but it really did not need it.

Not sure what to do with it. It's not unrideable like this but it is also not something I could live with and be happy in the long run. By various accounts of G8V owners with A5 motors, it does not seem normal either. In its current state -- when it kicks in -- it's reminds me of my V11 Sport when it was tuned badly, and that's saying a lot. Any idea anyone could share I'd very much appreciate...
 
Is your evap emissions and/or fuel/tip-over valve still in place? Does it whoosh air when you open the cap? If both of those are off, check the ECU and dash error codes and report back.
 
Hey Todd,

Thanks for getting back. The canister is gone, the tip-over valve is still on. No vacuum buildup in the tank. No errors on the ECU or dash...

Your question got me thinking though: the hose that went from the canister to the airbox -- should that be blocked off? Would it have any effect?
 
What do you do with the throttle body balance ports ? Cap them or run a hose between them?

Either way is ok
 
Dan: tried both just for the heck of it -- no discernible difference. Run with them connected now...

Todd, any further advice on this? Should I get rid of the tipover valve altogether? What about the hose that went from the end of the canister to the airbox? EDIT: I am talking about hose 6 in the diagram below. Hmm, looks like it is the other vent from/to the tank? Well then that should be free? It is now...

GRISO%20V%208V%201200058.jpg


I do feel it does have to do with the evap stuff; found a couple of threads here with a very similar scenario described, alas with no definitive resolution in either... I'd simply try putting the canister back on but I no longer have it...
 
I recommend removing the tip valve. The line from the air box can be blocked to keep it from dripping on the floor/ground, but both of the lines from the tank must be open. Only other thing I can think of is possibly a faulty 02-sensor, but without any error codes, I don't want to send you down that path... then, there's always my ECU re-flash.
:whistle:
 
Ok, I'll pull the valve and make sure both lines from the tank "breathe" with no obstructions. Thank you for the advice Todd!

As far as the reflash, this is something I'll be talking to you offline about at a later time, as I have questions based on the PCV/AT/reflash experience we've had with my V11. With the Griso, when I get to it, I want to make more educated choices -- with your help, hopefully.

I can disable the O2 sensor just to see what effect that has, but I won't not mess with it until the evap stuff is sorted...
 
makarushka said:
Dan: tried both just for the heck of it -- no discernible difference. Run with them connected now...

Todd, any further advice on this? Should I get rid of the tipover valve altogether? What about the hose that went from the end of the canister to the airbox? EDIT: I am talking about hose 6 in the diagram below. Hmm, looks like it is the other vent from/to the tank? Well then that should be free? It is now...

GRISO%20V%208V%201200058.jpg


I do feel it does have to do with the evap stuff; found a couple of threads here with a very similar scenario described, alas with no definitive resolution in either... I'd simply try putting the canister back on but I no longer have it...
Click to expand...


Get rid of the tip-over valve # 7 as Todd mentioned, Use the "T" fitting # 9 to tie both # 6 hoses together and route the middle outlet with a hose to the bottom of the bike. One tank vent is the overflow from the filler cap recess, the other is the actual tank vent itself.

The whole carbon canister scheme is bureaucratic BS and ludicrous, I vent more fuel vapors in the atmosphere filling up my Chevy pickup then both of my my bikes could ever in a year just sitting in my garage.

I am thinking the O2 Sensor as well, when you had the plug cap event the 02 sensor could have gotten a lot of carbon from a rich mixture on it. Would not hurt to pull it and maybe clean it up bit.
 
I replaced the valve with a brass hose barb. At this point both the overflow line and the tank breather line are definitely clear of any obstructions and not pinched. No vacuum buildup in the tank. The rough running is still there and after a while the bike coughs and booms in lower RPM -- to quote Mr. Roper, as a "farting, asthmatic tortoise."

There is another issue that may or may not be related to this -- a momentary delay from idle on fast throtlle opening that is not a cable slack issue -- but I will start a different thread about it.

It's starting to get pretty frustrating. The dealer I got the bike from is about a two-hour ride away, which may not be much but with my schedule about the only time I can bring it there is every other Saturday. Worse yet, this is the dealer that set up the bike initially with both bypass screws open. When I called and described the problem to the service manager, I was told to "bring it in" and that it would "probably be a small adjustment while you wait". Sounds encouraging but when I inquired as to what specifically they had in mind, the service manager very unwillingly and in a condescending manner finally spilled that it was a TB sync that they wanted to do. Upon my explanation that not only it'd been just fully serviced at the prescribed 900 miles but that I also had just performed another TB sync and a TPS reset just in case, the guy scoffed in disbelief and proclaimed "...BUT FOR THAT YOU'D NEED A MANOMETER!!!"

I said I'd call back and schedule this appointment at a later time. And I probably will -- not only to just give them a chance but to also create the paperwork trail and possibly work the warranty side of things so in case it is something common to these (or a batch of these) bikes, it perhaps gets fixed in the future.

If anyone has any other ideas about this thing, please voice it here. Anyone around here in the SF Bay that knows the 8V engines that would be willing to take a look -- and to ride the Griso for a frame of reference?
 
There is an update in the very first post of this thread -- a lot of it was tune-up and perception issues. Maybe some of the work the dealer did (all in that paperwork) had some effect on it -- not sure. It just went away. Possibly break-in helped, too.

EDIT: OH, HELLO!! This was PRE-reflash and fueling corrections of Todd's stuff from here on this site!! Forget it; it was a different bike altogether... :)
 
+1 The GuzziTech ECU Flash and PCV system completely transformed my Griso's powerband and smoothness. I just turned 4k miles (i travel a ton for work) and I am going to pull off my Gel grips on my handlebars it runs so smooth on the highway after the latest TB sync and TPS set! Thanks TODD for the killer products!

Thanks for posting the oil leak information as I'm going through that troubleshooting right now on my 2009 also, the spark plug tube o-rings were the major culprit after valve adjustment, but I think my Y line between the heads might be seeping also every so slightly but the screws visible in the fins seem like they are weeping now also. this is only on my right cylinder also

makarushka said:
There is an update in the very first post of this thread -- a lot of it was tune-up and perception issues. Maybe some of the work the dealer did (all in that paperwork) had some effect on it -- not sure. It just went away. Possibly break-in helped, too.

EDIT: OH, HELLO!! This was PRE-reflash and fueling corrections of Todd's stuff from here on this site!! Forget it; it was a different bike altogether... :)
Click to expand...
 
Like I have said before. I have never ridden a stock GRISO so I have nothing to compare it to. That said, the bike runs great! Todd's ecu flash and map set up really do the trick
 
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