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1100/1200 Head Swap

kmartin

kmartin

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Oct 3, 2009
Messages
292
Location
SoCal Mountains
I'm normally a rational person, but lately these Guzzis are having an effect on me.

The Griso first attracted me to the marque, but I reluctantly determined that it is unsuitable for my normal commute. I fell in love with the Stelvio I purchased in the first 5 minutes, but still lust after a red Griso. Some day. Any how, I find the top end bias of the 4 valve 1200, combined with the high gearing of the Stelvio, to cause me to drive too fast or get poor milage using 5th gear. In addition, the Griso 8v is way too expensive compared with the 1100, no way I can sell my wife on 2 bikes that are that pricey.

Then last night on the way home it hit me. What if I buy a 1100 Griso and swap the top end with the Stelvio, giving me the high performance Griso and a Stelvio with a meatier bottom and mid?

Crazy? Winter dementia? Should I think about doing this next winter?
 
Just about everything you can think of in the 8V engine is different to the old pushrod engine, very little from the crankcase right through to the rocker cover bolts is even remotely similar. Sorry.

Pete
 
You might be able to just swap entire motors.
I don't know if it would be easy, but I would bet it is possible.
 
GuzziMoto said:
You might be able to just swap entire motors.
I don't know if it would be easy, but I would bet it is possible.
Click to expand...

Clutch and gearbox are different too. You'd have to swap out the entire motive unit and probably the looms and dashboards too. Oh, and the coils of course. Huge amount of work. Not worth it.

Pete
 
Yeah, I know the clutch is different, but I would bet that you can mount the new box on the old motor. If you can't then you just aren't trying hard enough.
And as for whether it is worth the effort or not, the fact that you or I would not do it does not mean it is "not worth the effort". It means it is not something we would do. There are many things I see people do that I would not have done but different people have different standards.
As far as the other detail bits that you would have to swap as well, if you have both bikes then swapping coils and dashes and what not is not really a big deal...
 
I haven't looked too closely but I would guess you can mount the 8V single plate clutch assembley on the earlier crank which would enable you to mate up the gearbox to the older motor. You would then have the older twin plate clutch and gearbox to bolt up to the 8V and the reason why they put a new clutch on the 8V motor is because it produces significantly more power than the pushrod donk and would overwhelm it.

The input shafts are not only dimensionally different but the 8V input shaft no longer has a face cam shock absorber on it so while the gearbox casing will bolt up to the crankcase none of the stuff inside them is interchangeable and the primary ratios at the very least will be different too.

Yes, anything is possible given enough time, effort and money in a situation like this but on a time/value basis its dead in the water as well as being very difficult to achieve. The two complete motive units are so different as to be described as only very distantly related. While there are still a lot of outward similarities at first glance if you dig beneath the surface it soon becomes apparent how very far apart they are.

Pete
 
Well I thought it was a crazy idea. At least I stirred some discussion. This is by far the best response I've gotten to any post to date, well worth it for me.
 
Oh, I'm sorry. I left it at that because I didn't want to stir the pot too much and piss off pete (who knows more about Guzzi's then I ever will). If I had known you wanted a well stirred pot I would have added things like "Well, it sounds like it IS possible to swap motors and if you had both donor bikes it would not be that hard. As someone who has stuffed a Ducati twin into a singles chassis this sounds like cake.".
It is not that bad of an idea in my opinion. Guzzi should have done it like that to begin with. But it is not gonna be a weekend project.
Crazy, no.
 
If yer that keen why not swap the whole engine/gearbox unit? Maybe there's a common connection to the carc? (putting big spoon away)
 
Yes you could swap the whole motive unit but you'd still have the issues of the loom and the fact that the mapping in the ECU's is different, the ECU's interact with the instruments and the two sets aren't interchangeable.

Yes, anything is possible if you are willing to throw enough time and money at something but the original question posted in the title was '1100/1200 Head Swap'. That IS impossible but then it was expanded from there and all I've been trying to do is point out that it is neither easy or practical to do most if not all of the other suggestions and why.

If anyone really wants to go to the bother of sticking a Stelvio motive unit into an 1100 Griso frame of course it can be done, the 1100 frame and the 1200 frame are different in only minor ways, (I've just remembered the 1100 tank won't fit with the 1200 motor either so there would be more modification or a new tank needed.) but by the time you have bought a loom, some sensors, an ECU, a tank, a couple of dashboards, lots of other little bits and pieces and spent hours and hours swapping and fabricating it would be much, much easier and CHEAPER to sell one or other of the bikes and BUY what was wanted, in this case seemingly an 8VG, than fuck-arseing about with swapping everything over. That's all. If anyone wants to do it? Fine! Take it away! But a more crazed and masochistic way of making ones life difficult i can't think of offhand! :D

Pete
 
If the goal was, as stated, to end up with two bikes, a 2 valve Stelvio and an 8 valve Griso then starting with a Stelvio and a 2 valve Griso then some sort of swap is the only way you are going to get there. It is not a matter of selling one bike and buying another as Guzzi doesn't make an 2 valve Stelvio. Now, if you already own a Stelvio with the 8 valve motor and you wanted to end up with two bikes by buying another but you wanted a 2 valve Stelvio and a 8 valve Griso then buying a 2 valve Griso and performing some sort of swap is what you would have to do. As you would already have most of the parts required (loom, gauge cluster, etc) there would not be much additional to buy. But it would likely require atleast a bit of fab work to make it happen, and it always seems to need more fab work then you expected because there is always something unforseen that needs to be dealt with.
But it is doable. It would require more then a head swap and possibly an entire drivetrain swap, but it is possible. Would I do it? No, but I am not a fan of the Stelvio and the bike I would want is the 8 valve Griso which I can just buy. But my two valve Griso is fine most of the time and my Daytona is there for those times when I need more power.
 
Sounds like it's easier to swap nametags, wheels, forks and swing arms....
 
Seems to me that anyone contemplating a swap such as this has far too much time and money on their hands.
The latter could be better used by donating it to a good cause - me. :lol:
 
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