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2007 Norge: Galloping Idle from bad O2 Sensor or Stepper?

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by M0T0Geezer, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    At 39,000 miles my 2007 Norge "1200" (2-valve) blew the CARC pod. The sound of ice in a blender comes to mind - but that's another heartache.

    Now the idle has gone galloping (about 2K rpm) and the ECU is throwing O2 Sensor error codes. Damm.

    Dealer says a new O2 sensor is $300. He put in a good (?) used one for $30 but the idle/error problem persists; Idle slowly climbs from 1200 to 2000+ rpm. On the way up, Error Code pops up at 1500 rpm.

    I'll buy a new O2 sensor, but first I want to feel sure it's not a problem arising from clogged injectors or a bad Throttle Stepper Motor - like discussed here:
    https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/una-storia-steppermotoria.15653/

    This is such a beautiful bike, it deserves to be kept on the road - just to keep the little people aware of what a Real Touring Motorcycle looks like.

    Any help from y'all would be MAJORLY appreciated. Thank You !
    'Geezer
    [​IMG]
     
  2. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Block the stepper hose to the TBs, and observe whether the problem still exists.

    If this doesn't reveal the problem, then I would recommend going open loop, making the O2 sensor superfluous. The map would need to be tweaked to stop the dreaded triangle of death appearing in the dash. Todd's reflash kit available on this site will provide this feature.
     
  3. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Guzzi use a generic O2 sensor, available from many sources for the cost of the old one you had fitted. Don't pay Guzzi prices for this sort of thing.
    But I think it's more likely the stepper. Well documented on this forum.
     
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  4. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Anyone here know what the Part # & Brand is for the "generic O2 sensor" mentioned above by Brian IK?

    The $300 Guzzi one is too golden a price to pay for if I can help it.

    Thanks,

    'Geezer
     
  5. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    About the only real differences in O2 sensors is the number of wires (Guzzi has 4, two for heater and 2 for signal) and the connector. Just find the same number sensor (on the actual sensor) and if necessary marry it to your connector. It is the same as for some Fiat that isn't imported to the US, but you may be able to cross reference it. I hate to reference out but since Todd doesn't sell them (yet) Here is a source from the UK. https://www.sparkplugsrus.com/ntkngk-oza341-bb1-lambda-sensor-41-p.asp I had a source in the US but they seem to have closed up shop.
     
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  6. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Yes, the standard 4 wire, but I believe there is also a wide band type, which would not be directly equivalent.
    The only difference in the 4 wire type is the connector. From what I can see, those used by Vauxhall/Opel (General Motors) are the same as Guzzi use. Fiat will almost certainly be the same. Those for Japanese vehicles are not, and I don't think the German manufacturers use the same either. But here in the UK they can be bought for under 16 pounds - $20 ish?
     
  7. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Search Google for 46750182
     
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  8. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    That's the one.
     
  9. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Thank You (!!) all for such useful info. After picking the Norge up next week I will post a follow up report on how your suggestions were implimented and how they worked out. Ciao for now...
     
  10. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    20181211 UPDATE & FIX FYI: At last! The 2007 "Norginator" - 39,000 miles - has recovered from multiple illnesses, in two completely unrelated categories.

    (1) Total CARC Failure. The rear drive pod apparently had leaked itself dry and [understandaby] failed. This was announced by sudden onset of whining and sounds like ice in a blender. My fault: I didn't check it immediately after taking ownership from the P.O.

    I've had five other shaft drive bikes and in several hundred thousand overall miles never gave a thought to checking their oil level. Dealer took care of that at looo-ong intervals.

    If new new CARCs were even available they'd be about $2,000. Luckily one of the forum members had a good used one which he sold for only $350. It's working well, at least for 100 miles so far! CHECK YOUR CARC OIL OFTEN!

    (2) Galloping idle (2,000 - 2,500 rpm) accompanied by various error codes blaming the O2 sensor. Onset was gradual over 500 miles. A new O2 sensor (a copatible one from a Fiat for $30 instead of the $300 Guzzi-branded one) failed to cure. Dealer was still getting O2 error codes. The final cure was almost accidental: Finding multiple, severe cracks in the collector Y-pipe under the motor that houses the O2 sensor. This was leaking large amounts of outside air into the exhaust stream, thereby fooling the O2 sensor and causing the Engine Control Unit to make erroneous adjustments to the fuel mixture. A good used Y-pipe off of eBay ($250) fixed the idle problem and squelched the dashboard alerts. GT-Rx / GuzziTech here offers these new, via their own aftermarket manufacture for $390 by the way:

    https://gtmotocycles.com/collections/exhaust/products/gt-motocycles-norge-1200-2v-y-pipe
     
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  11. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Just a "bump" and also a link to the "Big Block fyi" text file that I maintain, primarily regarding the 2-Valve Norge 1200 USA model. Mine is a 2007

    dansher.com/bikepix/Guzzi/Norge1200/Norge_2007_fyi.txt

    Hopefully it will help some one [or more] of you get your Guzzi put right.
    Thanks this Guzzi Tech Forum and especially to all those whose work, experience, and superior knowledge have unknowingly contributed to this aggregation of Moto Guzzi love and lore.

    'Geezer
     
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