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2009 Griso 8V rear main seal

K

Kid Thunder

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
142
Noticed there was an oil leak to the rear right side of motor where the "sprocket" would be on a chain drive bike. Oil pan was wet but it didn't appear to be the pan gasket. Drain plug was dry. Oil seemed to be coming from threaded blind hole above the pan. But it was just a weird dynamic where the oil splashed up & looked like it was coming from hole.
Now this was Saturday,April 30th. Sounded familar. Looked at my records & I bought the bike on May 1st, 2009!!!
Called dealer at 10:30pm & left a message, 1.5 hours before the warranty ran out!!
He got back to me on Tuesday & said to bring it up(Seacoast Sportcycle, Derry, NH)
Diagnosed it as a bad rear main seal on the motor & Guzzi would cover it.
Is this common problem? Pete or anyone else. 7800 miles.
Kind of bummed out about it. Hope it doesn't happen again
 
Rear mains leaking is not a common problem for any Guzzi. If the dealer carefully inspects the crankshaft and there are no imperfections in the area where the seal rides, there should be no re-occurrence until the seal wears out. It takes many many miles before that would happen. I do replace rear mains whenever I do a clutch, but you are already there and for a few dollars more you can head off pulling the bike apart for just that seal. If you have more than 30,000 on the bike, I'd consider installing new clutch plates (parts would be on your dime) as the labor is already covered for the seal. The clutch should last a hundred thousand miles or so, so the option would be up to you.
 
Make sure when they are in there that the carefully inspect the flange. Guzzi have isssued a memo about leakage caused by poor seating of an o-ring due to incorrect machining of the case and too long a bolt in one of the holes. This has meant that the bolt bottoms out in the hole before it can exert any clamping force on the gasket and o-ring leading to leaks. This problem only affects a FEW machines with a build date prior to 2009.

Pete
 
Thanks John & Pete. I knew I could depend on you guys & this forum. I just sent your info to my dealer.
Thought it was a common problem & I was ready to cry!!
 
One of the main things I really want to impress on people is that there are no *Major* problems with the Nuovo Hi-Cam since the original 'soft tappet' fiasco.

Yes, there have been other pain-in-the-arse things like misting dashboards, (Warranty recognised.) and the speedo sensors, (Also warranty recognised but fixable by anyone who isn't a feeble minded imbecile in minutes.) and the crappy plug caps, (Anyone remember those dreadfull pressed tin horrors from Bosch that Guzzi used in the late '70's early '80's? Nobody whined back they, you just junked 'em amd bought NGK caps instead. What's changed that people can't do the same now??? :roll: ) Overall though the Nuovo Hi-Cam has been certainly no less reliable than ANY other manufacturers products UNLESS it has been sold and serviced by microcephalic Get-Rich-Quick merchants who know nothing about motorbikes and won't employ a 'Mechanic' to service stuff properly.

All the other 'Events' like the leaking flanges are VERY RARE, (I've yet to see or hear of one in my balliwick.) and have been addressed promptly by the factory.

Just call me 'Old Fashioned' but I do think that some people protesteth too much. Anything other than faultless perfection is seen as a HUGE, catastrophic, world destroying event!!!!! Harden the fuck up people! No wonder the Chinese are running the world! they deserve to!!!!

Pete
 
3 griso i know in Spain a griso SE 2010 6000 kms 8v Camshaft breakdown,andother Griso 2009 8v with campaign made ​​before leaving the store, with 8000 kms. damaged camshaft

---- and my Griso 2008 8v call the campaign at the 6500 kms. and broken the 15,000 kms last February with 3 years of use, that if GM has made ​​the repair at no additional cost, no I'm not agree that this fixed, now my bike has 17000 kms and it seems all right see how much time and miles put up with, and oil has always been correct AGIP 10W 60

If the SE models such as 2010, problems still exist, I'm sorry but I do not think anything, I would like to know how many kms or miles with your 8v engine 10,000 kms seamlessly ...... or is there who has more than 60,000 miles no breakdown by camshaft?
 
2009 G8V SE here with 11,500 kms (7000 miles), No camshaft or tappet problem… yet :blink:

Phang
 
I know of a Stelvio just this past week that was taken for a 500 mile ride in the back of a pickup truck from Florida up to Rider's Hill in GA. for just this reason , a progressively worsening oil leak. Dealer was aware about the problem via MG tech bulletin. A 2009 model year.
 
katacrak said:
3 griso i know in Spain a griso SE 2010 6000 kms 8v Camshaft breakdown,andother Griso 2009 8v with campaign made ​​before leaving the store, with 8000 kms. damaged camshaft

---- and my Griso 2008 8v call the campaign at the 6500 kms. and broken the 15,000 kms last February with 3 years of use, that if GM has made ​​the repair at no additional cost, no I'm not agree that this fixed, now my bike has 17000 kms and it seems all right see how much time and miles put up with, and oil has always been correct AGIP 10W 60

If the SE models such as 2010, problems still exist, I'm sorry but I do not think anything, I would like to know how many kms or miles with your 8v engine 10,000 kms seamlessly ...... or is there who has more than 60,000 miles no breakdown by camshaft?
Click to expand...

I'm up to 50,000 Km on mine and it has NEVER failed. Even though it was in the prime group of machines that were fitted with soft tappets. I was super-scrupulous about checking the valve clearances when it was new, ex factory they were all loose. That might be done to allow the valves to seat, (Al though with modern valve cutting techniques I don't think it should be neccessary.) but the 8V cams run very, very minimal rampings. Run the clearances too wide and the tappets will by-pass them and slam into the opening flanks of the cams. A recipe for stress and potential failure. I replaced my cams and tappets eventually when the parts were available and have since done another 35,000Km and hve only 'book Serviced' my bike although I admit I do change the oil more often then recommended. It works hard and is cheap insurance.

With the machine that failed after it had had the recall performed? Are you CERTAIN the work was carried out? Did you see the failed tappets and compare them to the newer items? Are you sure that the dealers who are servicing these machines that fail are actually performing the neccessary work and using an oil that meets the criteria set down by the manufacturer? Also, if the cams have tappets have failed and the sump is not removed and, prefferably, the oil pump inspected. All bets are off. The idea that simply flushing the motor with a couple of litres of oil is pure bullshit. It may be what the factory says but any mechanic worth his ticket would know that you're not going to drain out all the fragments of broken tappet and what is the only part of the motor that gets unfiltered oil? The oil pumps! Although on the 8V the cooling oil only gets strained at the pick-up. It doesn't pass through a *real* filter.

I know that here in Oz, unfortunately, there are STILL a few early 8V Grisos being sold without the recall having been performed. Mark III who posts here from time to time bought his in good faith and was told it had no recalls outstanding. I double checked with the importer and lo and behold? It was eligible and the work had NEVER been carried out. Luckily I caught it and did the recall. If I hadn't it might well of failed down the track.

With any issue like the tappet update or the welch plugs on some of the later 8V's all owners SHOULD be contacted immediately by the factory. The problem is, if the dealers don't tell the importer or the importer doesn't tell the manufacturer there wil be no record of who owns the bike, no record of date of sale and the warranty will never of been activated! It's extremely hard in those circumstances to know if work has or hasn't been carried out correctly.

At the end of the day if you don't have faith in the machine? Sell it and move on. You'll never be happy if you don't trust it. I trust mine implicitly and would quite happily hop on it and ride to Perth tomorrow. My other 8V Griso was also faultless after the work was carried out by a COMPETENT dealer in the USA. I can only speak from my own experience but as I've said elsewhere I know of only ONE failure of a machine after the recall was performed here in Oz and that was done by a known incompetent dealership, (They lost the Guzzi/Aprilia franchise they were so hopeless!) who had used really cheap and nasty mineral oil at the first service and it wasn't up to the cooling task the oil is asked to perform.

Pete
 
I really do love my 8V. As a sport bike or long diatance riding I REALLY love my Aprilia Tuono. But the Griso is just so KOOL! It fits in with any other bike be it sport, HD, cruiser or standard.
My recall on the tappets WAS done but the oil leak at the rear main worries me.
I sent my dealer you thoughts on the problem.
Hoping it's done in time for Laconia Bike Week. My wife & I are going up for our first anniversary. Last year we missed it because I was in hospital. Not much luck.
 
Pete thanks for your information. In the latest intervention in February, was well above the mechanical and supervise all the work, the pieces came from Italy directly, in a week since my claim, the code numbers of the parts were for different cams, and pushers them, I did not see the new, but if I have photos of old were so and these are the ones that were changed in 2009 with 6900 kms on the recall, and with only 8100 kms failed.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/71 ... astad.jpg/
When the dealer changed the past, something went wrong, he elf synthetic oil 10W 50, rode to the 1500 kms, and then changed to Agip 10W 60 and new filter. I think now even the engine sound changed, but this engine is special, it sounds different depending on weather conditions or I am a little psychotic .....

Only was the engine washing with 2 liters and nothing else


I love my bike, for me is a dream, is the bike I always wanted, character design and engine without equal. I ask only work with a minimum of reliability, and I remain confident that this is the last time you have to be repaired, plus MG always takes over, now is out of warranty and responds well Guzzi!

It is true that sometimes I consider selling it, but I repeat that I love this bike and I have no eyes for another.

... the miles and time will decide
 
Whoa!!! Whoa!!! Whoa!!!!!

OK, so not only did the tappets have new numbers but the camshafts did as well?

Tappets should be part #877725. From your pic it is hard to ascertain if they are 'Old' or 'New' type but you should also look at the part #'s on the bags the tappets were supplied in just to make sure.

Now also, CRITICALLY camshaft design has been changed. in the interests of quietening down the top end noise the cams on 'Newer' models are now shimmed for end float. Cam profile etc. remains identicalto the earlier cams but they are now ground to allow the use of shims on the shaft to essentially erradicate end float so they can't whack back and forward producing the 'Cyclic Rattle' and 'Bricks in a Cement Mixer' noise of the earlier bikes, (Some of them anyway. Mine is awful! Luckily I don't care how much racket it makes as long as it WORKS!).

The thing is that if you use the 'New' camshafts Part # 8776384 WITHOUT THE ASSOCIATED SHIMS TO SUIT, parts #CM162701/2/3/4/5 then the cam is going to have the opportunity to lash about like a cock in a sock making a HORRIBLE racket and doing untold damage to not only the camboxes but also to the tappets and cams as the ability of the cams to spin the tappests will be compromised.

Now ALL this information is, and has been, available on the 'Servicemotoguzzi' website for dealers and service agents to view, study and inwardly digest since 06/07/2009 for the tappet recall and 17/12/2010 for details of the camshaft end float changes.

It is clearly stated here

http://www.servicemotoguzzi.com/public/ ... 4-2010.pdf

that ALL EARLIER MODELS SHOULD STILL USE THE 40.35mm camshaft. Part #873873.

Now, if ANY of these parts or the replacement proceedure have not been used or carried out correctly it is hardly the factory's fault if bikes continue to go 'Tits Up' is it? What are they supposed to do? Send out someone competent from Italy to do a 'Show and Tell' for every cretin who doesn't know how to read a PDF file or understand their trade????

I remain convinced it is not a 'Design' or even a 'Manufacturing' problem any more. The problem lies with the de-skilled, management heavy cretins at importer and dealership level.

Pete
 
I’m not a dealer but I read that technical bulletin months ago and aware that the new and old camshafts are not interchangeable in application.

I really want to know if someone dropped the 39.35mm camshafts into the earlier engines. I think the >1mm of endfloat will make the engine sound like a cement mixer the moment it is fired up.

Phang
 
Pete, do you have an idea why the early models can't have the new camshaft with shims? Then the thing where the cams are mounted in are different too, so it won't fit?
 
My understanding is that the camboxes are the same. The difference is entirely in the cams. The shims are there to allow a much closer totterance between the 'Shoulder' on the shaft and the side of the cambox. You can use the new cams with the old cambox BUT it is imperative that a shim of the correct size is used as well otherwise you end up with a huge amount of end float.

This is what i have been led to believe by what I've read and talking to the importer's rep but really it is mainly down to logic and thinking about what is happening with the parts involved.

Pete
 
Phang said:
I’m not a dealer but I read that technical bulletin months ago and aware that the new and old camshafts are not interchangeable in application.

I really want to know if someone dropped the 39.35mm camshafts into the earlier engines. I think the >1mm of endfloat will make the engine sound like a cement mixer the moment it is fired up.

Phang
Click to expand...

And I seem to remember one of the Poms or maybe a Cannuck had exactly that experience but the mechanic was sensible enough to know something was wrong so they did a bit more digging and found out about the shims.

Pete
 
I just checked the parts fiche, the cambox assembly is bearing the same part number (#873426) for MY-07-08-09 engines (40.35mm camshaft) and the MY-10 engine which uses 39.35mm camshaft.

Phang
 
Let’s get back to the topic. Kid Thunder, this is probably what you will see. I found this in a French forum :sick:

JointSpy2.jpg
 
The seat around the oil feed dowel where the o-ring sits in the flange needs to be machined to a depth of 1.5mm to prevent damage to the o-ring and the length of the two bottom bolts checked when installed. If they protrude more than 8mm of thread shorter bolts should be used to retain the flange.

Pete
 
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