76 850 T3

[Trout]

So I just picked up a 76 T3 and having been an old loop frame rider I'm getting adjusted to a whole new Guzzi. Any one with experience on the T3?? It seems to be geared a little low for touring / hi-speed. Turning about 4500 rpm at 80 and it just sounds/feels like it should be lower on the rpm scale. Not complaining as I'm not planning on any long distance rides and really like like the quick response of the close gear box. I rode a Lemans some years back and it had way taller gears as in 2nd was an easy 60mph pull. I never had a tach on any of the old loops so I'm going by a 20 years gone by memory and the feel of the T3. Any input is appreciated. Trout

 

[Penis Rotor]

Gearing on the T3 and LeMans models is identical unless you are lucky enough to have scored on with a ZD close ratio box. Since no T3 ever left the factory with a ZD on it you've either been very lucky of your memory is playing tricks.

Don't worry about the gearing. It'll sit all day between 80 and 90mph.

Things to check? UJand support bearing and if it still has the original chrome bores get rid of 'em. Add a real cam chain tensioner bleedd and rebuild brakes if neccessary and you'll be ready to go.

Pete

 

[guzzibob]

I have a 78 T3FB that I bought new in 78 & still use on a regular basis. Pete is right, it will run all day 80-90 mph, or 4000-5500 rpm. In fact, I would not run it below 4000 in the top couple gears for an extended period, that's almost lugging it-& certainly cutting back on the avaolable HP. My T3 has always run the smoothest & seemed happiest round about-say, 4300-5500 rpm or so. Granted some time ago I replaced the very restrictive 30 VHB carbs with 32 PHFs (a lot more folks have used 36 PHF), & either will produce a lot more giddyup from 4500 rpm on up to 7000 compared to stock with little to no loss below that. These are not Harleys, and IMHO any Tonti, esp T3 on, is far more capable than any remotely near stock loop frame anytime the road is less than straight, certainly way more so than the drum brake Eldo I had a couple bikes before the T3. Enjoy.

PS-Also totally agree with Pete's comments on the UJ, carrier bearing & if still there chrome bore.

 

[Trout]

Hey and Thanks to Pete & Bob for the feedback. I put a small windscreen on it and am now quite comfortable at 70+ cruising, i guess without the wind pushing on me and gettin past the 4500 rpm mark she settled into her groove.
Both you guys are suggesting to get rid of the chrome bores so what is the favorite replacement? Are you guys fans of big bore kits? If I go that route then what about cam, carbs, exhaust etc.... I just want to ride and am really not wanting to get into a lot of trial/error performance stuff-did way too much of that in the 70's. (But I have already started looking for a project Guzzi or one to ride while I do this one.)

Anyway we stopped at a coffe shop this morning and when I came out there was a half dozen people drooling over a 34 year old Guzzi. I haven't felt that cool in many years. Trout

 

[Rafael]

Congrats on the T-3. I put on handle bars, switches, tail light and 30mm carbs. from the 1000 SP on mine back in '80s. It's my beater now but she still gets attention when parked out front. When I bought it, it had been in storage for a while, ran fine so I rode it. But when I changed the rear tire I found the cush drive and wheel splines had worn down to little spikes. Lesson learned: If splines have not been greased rust will develop during storage and act like sand paper and wear them out. Make sure the splines throughout the whole drive line are greased with Wurths spline grease. Most likely your spline have been greased by now, but check them; replacement parts are expensive. Ditto: check that UJ. If you change it change the UJ carrier bearing as well.

If your calipers need rebuilding and the pistons are damaged it's worth buying new calipers. F08s are still available at a reasonable price. Stainless steel brake lines are a big improvement over 34 year old rubber lines too.

I bumped up the displacement to 949 with pistons and cylinders from a CX 100. Just had to modify the cylinder sleeve to fit the block. Got a bit more torque out of it for the sidecar. if I remember correctly it has cast iron sleeves and chrome p-rings. There was no problem with the chrome sleeves just changed with when I did a valve job. Wear out stuff you have.

Does your bike have electronic ignition? I have the Lucas Rita on mine; Flawless! (surprisingly). There's a German ignition out there that eliminates the whole distributor. Mounts on the alternator. Never liked points.

Have fun with the bike, Rafael

 

[Series4]

I had to replace my T3 barrels a little while back and the consensus was to stick with 850 as going bigger may cause balance issues. It's a very simple job, just get a couple of Gilardoni kits which contain barrels, pistons, rings, pins and clips. Another tip is to replace the o-rings on the cylinder studs while the barrels are off. Took me less than an afternoon.

Peter

 

[guzzibob]

Both you guys are suggesting to get rid of the chrome bores so what is the favorite replacement? Are you guys fans of big bore kits? If I go that route then what about cam, carbs, exhaust etc.... I just want to ride and am really not wanting to get into a lot of trial/error performance stuff-did way too much of that in the 70's.

Trout

I did the carbs first, then much later the big bore kit-the latter mostly because at that point I had to do both pistons & barrels anyway, both needing replacement, so what the heck, I figured might as well go bigger. Anyway it was pretty clear to me that the carb change produced a lot more bang for the buck from a performance viewpoint than the big bore kit, which produced more modest gains. Wouldn't even consider messing with the cam on these bikes. Per Guzziology doing so leads to a need for changes in valve springs & pushrods, & I just don't want to go there. Really, just do the carbs first & see if that is enough. You will be amazed how much difference it makes, even running dead stock exhausts; the VHB 30's are SO restrictive. I am told by a mechanic I trust (Sean Fader at MG Classics) that a less restrictive exhaust would also do a lot. However, I am not a big fan of attracting more attention from law enforcement than my riding habits sometimes already do, so I still have the stock exhausts, but drilled out a bit by Sean. Didn't make the bike run a lot stronger, though perhaps some, but sure made it sound better without being much louder.

Most people inc. mechanics seem to prefer the 850 Gilardoni kits. I really wouldn't wait for the chrome bores to peel, that chrome is VERY hard & can cause lots of damage in unpleasant places if you let it get that far, & unpredictable as to when that might happen. I too have heard the arguement that if you go bigger you may get balance problems that would require engine rebalancing to cure. My mechanics at the time, Cycle Garden, advanced the arguement that since instead of the common Gilardoni Nigasil coated barrels & forged pisons they used cast Mahle pistons which are inherently lighter than forged, & so the 949 or 1000 Mahle cast pistons weigh virtually the same as 850 forged stock/Gilardoni pistons, that eliminated the need for rebalancing. Whatever the theory, all I can tell you is that my bored/sleeved big bore motor was actually a bit smoother from day one than stock without any rebalancing, & now 43,000 miles later is both obviously smoother & still a wonderfully fine running motor-with the 32 PHF carbs than went on before the rebuild. In theory the Nigasil coated bores should last a lot longer than my bore/sleeve job-though so far, so good. On the other hand the prior 850 cc sleeved barrel I got from Harpers had to be replaced prematurely (I think at about 35k) when one very hot & high speed day the sleeves turned in the barrel. There have certainly been days with the new kit that were just as hot & run just as hard without any consequences whatsoever so I guess the moral of the story is that not all sleeve/bore jobs are created equal, & in any case my statistical sample of one is hardly definitive. If I were doing it again, not sure what I would do, but hope I never have to decide....