Advice needed!

[GuzziHero]

Is that what the CARC is? I have to be honest, my dad was an engineer but he taught me old school (which is why I went for a carb Cali instead of injected) and I havent really worked out yet exactly what the CARC does or how it works. I need to do some research

I know the bike kicks because of the crank rotation and getting all that mass moving...but I dont understand why the Griso kicks the opposite direction to the others. Surely the engine rotates the same way? Or maybe I'm imagining it, I do know the Griso kicks a helluva lot less than the Cali or even the V50.

I'm also guessing that the lighter crank and such, plus the way the bike is set up on the fuelling, is why it has so little engine braking. Its not something Im comfy with, I generally use the engine to brake all the time, not the actual brakes. I think its also a result of having too many damn gears. Why does it need 6? In my opinion, it should have had 5, maybe even only 4.

Back on topic, I took it out again and I still dont feel any driveline lag at all and my cables are slack. I still wonder if those who notice it most are just not used to shaft twins?

 

[johnno]

Hi ericf from what ive read all the normal issuses have been mentioned in above posts .Three years ago i got my first guzzi a G11 and ive never had popin and banging on the exhaust system and ive run standard endcan,blueflame and now scorpion endcan the G11 just sorts its self .
Ive never had to adjust cables either and never had backlash from carc ,it sounds more like your dealers have not set it up correct or your still thinking jap smoothness.
Stick with it because when its sorted the G11 is very rewarding to ride ,ive put 25 000 miles on mine with the only problem being speed sensors,oil sensors and fuel pipe coming off fuel pump. Like Guzzimoto says keep it simple before thinking power commanders etc.
Im in leics and quite happy to meet up with other griso owners ,you can even take my bike for a run.
All the best

 

[GuzziMoto]

I'm also guessing that the lighter crank and such, plus the way the bike is set up on the fuelling, is why it has so little engine braking. Its not something Im comfy with, I generally use the engine to brake all the time, not the actual brakes. I think its also a result of having too many damn gears. Why does it need 6? In my opinion, it should have had 5, maybe even only 4.

Back on topic, I took it out again and I still dont feel any driveline lag at all and my cables are slack. I still wonder if those who notice it most are just not used to shaft twins?

The reduced engine braking is probably mostly down to the stepper motor setup the new Guzzi's (and many other new bikes) use. This lets air into the intake tract to reduce emissions on decel but it has an reducing effect on engine braking. Many people, myself included, have installed a valve to allow the stepper motor system to be turned off or some have deleted it altogether. It is useful for cold starts so I have a manual valve that turns it on or off.
Six gears is a good thing. I have a Daytona with a 5 speed and miss the sixth gear. But the trans is not Guzzi's best work. It is clunky like a Harley trans. My wifes V11 is a much sweeter 6 speed trans but it does occasionally hit a false neutral. But with 5 or even 4 speeds acceleration would suffer and that would be bad. The 1100 is barely fast enough as it is. I can't imagine it selling well if it were slower.

 

[cyclobutch]

From more recent correspondence:

Yeah, I bought mine with 1500 miles on the clock. Now showing around 5250. The only improvements I've seen in this time I (like to) think corresponds to the work I've had done.

I've ridden shaft drive bikes since 1980 - all Guzzis. I've not been troubled in this way before. I may not be fast but I think I have a reasonably steady throttle hand.

Yes I've not tried to set up the bike myself, and have been through several dealers. I now entrust things to Baldric at Corsa Italiana. His reputation precedes him and I ride across several counties when I have to drop the bike in. The bike goes back in for it's 6k service in mid May so I'll see how it goes then.

My feeling is that a lot of the problem is down to driveline slack, not to be remedied though possibly controlled to some extent by better set up. Both my pals and my bikes were registered in June '06 which I suppose makes them some of the earlier ones. Is it possible that bikes off the line later were better set up mechanically?

Points that interest me:

- Stepper Motor; can some one post a link to any notes on fooling with this?
- Carbon canister; ditto (though it maybe won't be on my UK spec bike anyway?)
- Fat Duc; what model would I want and who supplies in the UK?

As an aside, on fuel consumption. Most of my riding is at the back of a small group tearing around main land Europe. As such I'm usually caning the motor trying to keep up (especially after previous bikes - Bandit 12 then Speed Triple). I always fill with high octane when I can get it, and without being too scientific with the measuring always seem to get about 10 miles per litre. Those other two bikes were the same. (But will that new map make a difference?)

 

[GuzziHero]

Ah, there goes my theory of lack of Guzzi experience

Something sounds wierd on that fuel consumption. I always seem to get about 35-40MPG on what I think is the original map with an MHP exhaust, but have no problem keeping up with other bikes. I have followed GSXR1000s ridden swiftly (though not FAST) and given nothing away. The Griso has matched pound for pound a GSXR400 with 750 throttle bodies and nearly matched a VFR400R with a HRC ECU, as well as destroyed an RF600 in acceleration. Guzzi or not, a litrebike is a litrebike and it should be pulling pretty well with the Japanese bikes, especially on midrange. You wouldnt believe how close the Cali torque is to my old FZR1000, and the Griso should be even stronger.

I do admit that the Griso doesnt seem to be bothered by 95 or 98RON fuel. It made a huge difference with the FZR, but neither Guzzi seems to change with the fuel grade.

 

[Spaceclam]

Just a word of warning with the Fat Duc.

All it is is a variable resistor, placed between the o2 sensor an the ECU. In closed loop, the fueling varies WILDLY from super lean to blubbering rich. Adding the unit will make things richer EVERYWHERE. Use it sparingly. IF you have tuned out ALL the popping on decel, it's WAY too rich in some places. Too rich has consequences too, like fouled plugs, carbon deposits, oil contamination, rough running, and sometimes even vapor lock etc which can all do damage. USE THE FAT DUC SPARINGLY.

I have ridden one with the unit installed, and i can say it improves things (from the seat of the pants) but add as little fuel as necessary. It's kind of a band-aid, but it's certainly better than nothing.

 

[GuzziMoto]

Points that interest me:

- Stepper Motor; can some one post a link to any notes on fooling with this?
- Carbon canister; ditto (though it maybe won't be on my UK spec bike anyway?)
- Fat Duc; what model would I want and who supplies in the UK?

Stepper motor info;
https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/160/3025.html and
https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/topic. ... tor#p20550
Carbon canister not an issue with non US spec bikes.
FatDuc is available else where;
http://www.fatduc.com/
and as mentioned, are a low tech solution. They are not really model specific as far as I know but I don't use one. I went with a proper fueling fix, a Power Commander, Auto Tune, and ecu redo from Todd. But they are just a variable resistor setup as mentioned and have limits to what they can do. But some who have used them have had good results, including Pete Roper.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Just to clarify that. I did use one for a while and it was helpful with the bottom end fueling BUT it threw up the 'Service' Icon continually in warmer weather, (This really gave me the shits, which surprised me.) and have now taken it off my 8VG as I considered it redundant.

My feeling on this is that there HAS to be something else wrond with this bike. Either a corrupt ECU or a bad TPS or the like as my G11 always fuelled up nicely, even at low RPM, as long as it didn't have a ridiculously un-baffled pipe on. Even then it only made it feel 'Harsh'. That was early in the peice and with only the original map too.

Either there is something wrong with the bike or it's not being ridden correctly.

Pete

 

[GuzziMoto]

My apologies, Pete.

 

[ericf]

More interesting/informative thoughts.

I have done some digging and it seems that the bike has had a replacement ECU a while ago under warranty. Have spoken to a recommended Guzzi specialist who seems to think that this may be at the root of the problem after I described the issues. Going to take a run down there to investigate the matter further.

Thanks all for the help. Will post on the outcome of further invewstigations

E

Ps the other historic issues were the same as Johno's - speed sensors and fuel pipe; I believe these are common issues.

 

[Penis Rotor]

My apologies, Pete.

No apology neccessary. I was simply wanting to clarify what you'd said.

One thing I have often found is that shops with a long term reputation and very good mechanics seem to sometimes fall down when it comes to the newer bikes. I don't really know why, my guess though is pride and an unwillingness to say 'I don't know' and ask others for advice. All the people and shops that I know who have a good history with the new bikes have.

1) Very skilled mechanics who actually like Guzzis and are interested in the 'New' technology and are willing to learn about it.

2) Have no problem with saying "I don't know." but are then willing to ask around, bounce ideas of other similarly skilled people and FIND OUT.

On more than one occasion I've been flummoxed by a problem and started chasing my tail over it. A couple of quick emails or phone calls or a mixture of both to the likes of Greg, who can ask Michah at MI if he can't help, or Mike Haven, Steve in Atlanta or more locally to Mario in Perth, John at Motocicolo in Sydney or Brad Black in Melbourne and someone will toss me a different sort of bone to gnaw on and eventually, so far, I've not had a problem I haven't been able to sort. Some of these people are 'official' Moto Guzzi service agents and mechanics. Some of them are just dead-set good mechanics/engineers. What they have in common is that they are good. Most of 'em as lot cleverer than me.

It would be a very different story if I had just relied on my own pea brain and then tried to tell my customers that "They all do that". Because they DON'T 'All do that' and if they 'Do do that' then there's something wrong with them. I'm supposed to be the bloody Guzzi mechanic. It's my sodding JOB to fix it!!!! :shock: I can't fleece people for vast amounts of money for NOT fixing their pox-ridden shitheaps. I can hold 'em upside-down and shake 'em until nothing but moths comes out their pockets if I do!!!! :evil:

Pete