Air Box inspection and such

[Phang]

While I was doing the quarterly battery tray inspection/cleaning today (my battery leaks a little, that’s another story), I took a peek at the air box and snapped some photos to share with you guys.

Last air box inspection was done at 10,000km (6250miles) ago when the bike has 2000km (1250miles) on the odometer. It was bone dry inside the air box. This time, a tablespoon of oil was pooling at the front left corner of the air box (bike on side stand, obviously). I never over fill the engine, the air box drain tube has no oil accumulated since new.

As you can see, the air box drain hole (yellow circle) is located at the center rear, unless you have a significant amount of oil accumulated inside the box (or wheelie a lot) otherwise you will not see oil in the clear PVC drain tube at the bottom of the gearbox.

Soaked it up with a piece of kitchen paper towel and I think it is good for another 10,000km before I check again. Intake bellmouths look good as well as the butterflies.

Battery is out and charging now. The bike dash showed 12.0V but my multimeter says 12.65V. The clutch level squeaked a little during the last ride so I removed both levers to clean up the accumulated curds and reinstall with fresh grease.

Phang

 

[Penis Rotor]

The factory now makes a lot of noise about 'Removing the throttle bodies every 10,000Km for 'Cleaning'. My belief is this is just another example of the same sort of ridiculous old tosh caused by over filling with oil. Quite simply Guzzi's engineers have been serial pests in regard to oil quantities ever since, well, just about forever!

If you fill virtually ANY big-block Guzzi to the Full mark on the dipstick it will pump some out. I have no idea what the actual 'Specification' is of volume for the 8V but it IS spescified that you check the oil and fill to the 'Full' mark on the stick with the stick just resting on the threads.

On the older bikes you checked with the dipstick screwed in and to get them to 'Full' takes me 36 pumps of my drum pump. Older bikes would tend to pump out oil until it was about mid-way between the 'Full' and 'Add' marks on the stick. I long ago stopped filling 'old' bikes to over the half-way mark.

The 1200-8V takes AT LEAST 40 pumps and that is on top of the pre-filled filter to get the oil to the 'Full' mark on the correctly inserted stick. The actual volume of the crankcase HAS increased a little bit, (Judged by eye.) but so has the swept volume. So the *extra* oil will simply be contributing to *extra* crancase pressurisation and taxing of the breather system.

About 20,000 Km into my ownership of the Griso Verde I reckoned that everything had probably bedded in. So I just let the oil level fall. At about 1/3rd of the way up the stick from the 'Add' mark it simply stopped using any oil at all. So that is now my 'Full' mark. In the last 20,000 Km I have added perhaps one pump from the drum in between oil changes and my airbox remains obstinately dry and my throttle bodies spotless and 'Un-Gummed'. My TPS reading remains obstinately spot on and my bike fuels up damn near perfectly as judged by me. My TB's have never had to be 'Removed and cleaned'.

Just sayin'..........

Pete

 

[Phang]

I filled 3000ml of fresh oil with oil filter change and 2500ml without oil filter change. The 3500ml volume suggested by Guzzi manual will bring the oil level a centimeter over the MAX mark on the dipstick.

The oil level on the dipstick stays at the same spot (3/4 from the “Add” mark) whenever I check it at every 1000km interval. Since the engine barely uses any oil at all, I will fill in less oil in the next oil change. Probably 1/3rd of the way up the stick from the 'Add' mark and see how it goes.

Phang

 

[FrostBittenCanadian]

Phang... REALLY,I mean REALLY? You have a battery that is leaking sulphuric acid? That would tend to concern me a wee bit more than the oil in the airbox. Ditch the batt. and get a new one before the back end of the bike falls off!
FBC

 

[contractor20]

Battery is out and charging now. The bike dash showed 12.0V but my multimeter says 12.65V. The clutch level squeaked a little during the last ride so I removed both levers to clean up the accumulated curds and reinstall with fresh grease.

Phang

Phang! your charger seems to be overcharging ((must be a bank or a spare parts outlet )apologies to those in the trade)) The pic shows your battery charging to nearly 14.5V so maybe this is the reason "Quote" [The bike dash showed 12.0V but my multimeter says 12.65V.] Multimeter not calibrated :whistle: ?????

I too have noticed there is a dicrepancy of 0.4-0.5volts at rest (me wonders if this is a memory function or default) and a slight variation during operation of 0.0-0.2 volts across the range.... seems to be more accurate at the top of the range with mine

 

[Phang]

FBC, no kidding, the battery weeps a bit since the first month of ownership. First sign was the green/turquoise stuff on the battery negative terminal, upon removal of the battery, I found a few droplets of acid at the bottom of the battery tray.

I couldn’t trace the source of the leakage but it seems coming from the area around negative post. Being thrifty and cheap, I continue to use the battery. Every 3 months I got to remove the battery to clean the 2~3 droplets of acid at the bottom of the tray. I hope the battery will die on me very soon so that I don’t need to do this chore every 3 months but what if the battery last and weeps for 5 years? Again, it is hard for me to ditch a working battery. Should I or should I not?

Kym, the camera caught the charger in the reduced current “absorption charging mode” The correct voltage at this mode is 14.4V according to the battery charger manufacturer. You are right, my voltmeter probably needs calibration :lol:

Also, I measured the parasitic drain today. It is exactly the same as the value I got when I first measured a year ago at 1.89mA, the flashing triangle light on the dash will shoot the value up to 3mA momentarily. As a comparison, my old BMW R1150R will drain the battery at the rate of 20mA at rest. That’s about 10 times of what Griso is sucking the battery. I love Guzzi :mrgreen:

Phang

 

[Phang]

Updates.

I changed the engine oil and oil filter a month ago. As I wanted to run with a lower engine oil level, I refilled it with 2500ml of fresh 10W-60.

Checked the oil level twice since then and it was at the mid point between the MIN and MAX.

That’s a whole liter (1000ml) less than what Guzzi recommended in their manual :blink:

Phang

 

[Greyo]

...
Quite simply Guzzi's engineers have been serial pests in regard to oil quantities ever since, well, just about forever!
...

Talking about confusing/conflicting info in Guzzi shop manuals concerning (but not limited to) oil levels and related checking procedures, here are a few questions:

1) Do you guys check the oil level on a cold engine, or
2) do you let the engine idle for a bit before checking the oil level, or
3) do you ride the bike for 10 miles before checking the oil level, as suggested by Guzzi?
4) If you answered "yes" to either 2) or 3) above, how long do you wait before checking the oil level after you've shut off the engine?

 

[Phang]

The engine oil level of my Griso stays pretty consistent, at least to the naked eyes (you don’t measure your oil level on the dipstick with a ruler, do you? :mrgreen: ), in regards to the engine temperature and the time after engine being turned off.

Checking the engine oil level immediately after a ride or after a few days gives the same reading.

But, “… let the engine idle for a bit before checking the oil level” will definitely get a lower than actual oil level on the dipstick especially on a cold engine.

Phang

 

[Ad B]

Hi Phang,

Updates.

I changed the engine oil and oil filter a month ago. As I wanted to run with a lower engine oil level, I refilled it with 2500ml of fresh 10W-60.

Checked the oil level twice since then and it was at the mid point between the MIN and MAX.

That’s a whole liter (1000ml) less than what Guzzi recommended in their manual :blink:

Phang

Why do you want to run your G12 with a lower oil level?
Is this one hole liter less as Guzzis recomendation?
Phang, you are living in a quite warm country.
The G12 is using his oil not just for lubrication, but also for a big amount of cooling some internal parts.
Is your oil not getting to fast to hot?
Off course, I understand you never must overfill your bike, max is really max.
Overfilling is also asking for trubble.
I keep my G12 very close to max. That isn't a heavy job... I don't have to look every day or week...
I keep my oil level ~1 mm under max. Always measuring in the same way, on the same spot (in my garage).

Ad B

 

[Phang]

You’ve got me worried, Ab

Let’s get back to the fundamentals, here is how I measure the engine oil level on the Griso:-

Bike upright, both wheels on leveled ground. In fact, the engine oil level on the dipstick is not affected if I put the bike on a Becker Technik stand which raise the rear of the bike by a little.

Dipstick resting on the brim of the filler hole as illustrated.

When I filled 3500ml during the first oil change (incl. oil filter), the oil level was way past the MAX on the dipstick and I had to siphon out 500ml to bring the oil level within the MAX-MIN region.

In the subsequent two oil changes (incl. oil filters), I filled the engine with 3000ml and the oil level on the dipstick stay at the mark as shown in the illustration below.

The last two oil changes was done at 5,000km interval, the oil level virtually didn’t drop at all and stay on the same spot even after 5,000km of abuse. As I found a little oil in the airbox as mentioned in the first post of this topic, I want to try to run with a little less engine oil to see if I still get engine oil pooling in the airbox after 10,000km.

As I am typing this, I just came back from riding the Griso and checked the engine oil level after reading your reply. It stays at the 2500ml spot. I hope Luigi didn't put a longer dipstick on my bike :blink:

Phang

 

[Phang]

Ad, I wanted to show you my stick (no pun intended :lol: ) so I went to the car park to recheck the oil level and took some photos.

It is extremely difficult to capture the oil on the black plastic dipstick so I draw a line to give you an idea where the oil level is.

Dipstick resting on the filler hole.

Phang

 

[Ad B]

Hi Phang,

I work in the same way as you.
Wheels on the floor, in my garage (leveled floor), dipstick as on your drawing and photo.
The wisdom you're bringing to me, will let me conclude... fill the engine up with a bit more than 3 Liter.
Overfill is always bad, sometimes very bad

I must try to keep this in mind...
I'm used to fill up engines with quantities factory and workshopmanuals say.
But the best way is always:
Fill the engine up in a few times and during that, check the dipstick till it's nearly at max level.

And you're right, the G12 dipstick is difficult to read.
Why not in grey color or better... a reading glas...

Ad B

 

[Greyo]

Phang, I get exactly the same result on my 8V SE: adding 3.5 liters causes the level to overshoot by half a centimeter or so the MAX mark - I found that out right after the very first oil change done at an authorized MG dealer (who shall remain unnamed)...

Concerning the low "readability" of the stock dipstick, have you guys (I'm including Ad B in this) considered replacing it with this one?
http://www.mgcycle.com/product_info.php?products_id=917
It fits perfectly and looks nice - only drawback, it gets quite hot so you must wear gloves for checking the oil on a hot engine.

 

[Phang]

While I wish that the tip of the stock plastic dipstick could have made of metal and shaped for easy wiping, I have to admit that the tapered cylindrical shape of the other end of the stock plastic dipstick is a good and well thought out design.

It helps to center the dipstick when it is being dropped into the filler hole to ensure an accurate and repeatable readings.

Phang

 

[grimace]

just did my oil change. 3150 ml of motul. I used a 1 gal foil pan for drainage and the oil came close to the rim so guesstimate of 3500ml oil from dealer change.
Anyways how's your bike running with 2500ml of oil?

 

[Chicago Mark]

The excellent recommendation I got from my dealer is to fill the oil filter separately then add 3 liters of oil (Agip 10x-60) to the engine. The filter will hold less than a half liter and the end result is an oil level 'just' under the max mark on the dipstick.

Works great,

Mark

 

[grimace]

Went out to check out the dip stick tonight and the oil just crosses over the max line bottom corner on an angle. Dipstick place without threading and bike on side stand. i might try the oil filter trick but the way things work for me is that it would slip and spill while installing. The motul bottles are liters with nice see through ml increments so i can measure what i put in, plus a handy little spout pops out.(still use a funnel) The oil is also red and much more visible on the black dipstick.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Golly you lot are funny.

The right level for oil in the engine is when it stops pumping the (very expensive!) shit out!!!

Like Phang I've found that about 1/3rd to 1/2 way between the 'Full' and 'Add' marks is where this happens. How much oil is this? Buggered if I know! I pre-fill the filter and then add to what I know is where it won't blow it out. I also do this, and explain it to, my customers. None of their bikes have suffered a catastrophic failure yet. In fact none of them have failed at all! How good is that!!!

There is LOTS of oil. Use the good stuff. Because of the heat around the exhaust valve seats and under the piston crowns I over change my oil somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 Km rather than 10,000 but even that is probably un-neccesary but getting all hung up about the *exact* quantity is prime quality, 24 carrat bullshit.

Stop measuring! Go ride!!!

Pete

 

[ghezzi]

One of the things I love about Guzzi's, is they do things different to almost every other manufacturer.

It may be called a dipshit oops I mean a "Dipstick" which you would dip for any other bike. I've been out of Guzzi's for a few years but all my old Tonti's you had to screw it in.

So I would cut a small "v" in the side of the "Screwstick" at the appropriate spot so I could use it as, and call it a dipstick.

Ironically, that mark would be almost identical to Phangs photo/line.

Also my Bellagio has a plugged drainage hose from the base of the airbox. Probably hadn't been drained since new and I bought it with 17,000k, pulled the plug and maybe drained 5-10cc of oil. Hose exits frame above O2 sensor.
Dipstick level was below Max when I bought it, hasn't dropped, who cares. If a Guzzi blows up, its just an excuse to rebuild it better, faster etc.

Just a thought, Guzzi's don't come with centre stands anymore, wonder if you set your oil level on flat ground with bike on sidestand and dipping the stick, it would be equal to centre stand ansd screwing it in. oh and about 3 litres.