All Balls bearing conversion

[Trevor Richey]

I've got a set of All Balls tapered rollers to replace my failed steering bearings but the lower bearing doesn't look like it'll sit right with the seal. The cage is going to ride right on the rubber seal when installed. Anyone here have experience with these?

 

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Best of luck with All Balls. That name comes up with monotonous regularity in other bike fora. Pretty much universally considered scrap metal. There are plenty of good brands of bearings out there, and All Balls is not amongst of them. NTN, Toyo, SKF, Fag are all good, tho I have only used SKF or Fag for decades now - probably out of habit if I were to think about.

 

[dennisj]

At the 10,000 mile service I removed the top triple tree clamp, inspected, cleaned and lubricated the top steering shaft bearings. At that time they looked good and did have some lubrication, though a minimum amount. I did not remove the lower triple tree clamp to inspect or lubricate the lower steering shaft bearings. This was a big mistake. At 25,000 miles I did remove the forks (to change the fluid and install the Matris Cali1400 spring kit), the lower bearings are in terrible shape, pitted, rusty and fused with some kind of awful gunk. They are beyond repair or further service.

I need to replace them, I'd like to move on to tapered bearings. Does anyone have any suggestions about replacements for a 2014 California Touring?

Attached is what my bearings look like, after cleaning them up with kerosene and lots of elbow grease.

 

[Raven]

Those ball bearings are so rough they look like shot from an antique musket!

 

[V700Steve]

I don't use any 'all balls' bearings, china junk. Wheel bearings lasted 15mi and came apart from failure.

 

[PaulDavies]

At the 10,000 mile service I removed the top triple tree clamp, inspected, cleaned and lubricated the top steering shaft bearings. At that time they looked good and did have some lubrication, though a minimum amount. I did not remove the lower triple tree clamp to inspect or lubricate the lower steering shaft bearings. This was a big mistake. At 25,000 miles I did remove the forks (to change the fluid and install the Matris Cali1400 spring kit), the lower bearings are in terrible shape, pitted, rusty and fused with some kind of awful gunk. They are beyond repair or further service.

I need to replace them, I'd like to move on to tapered bearings. Does anyone have any suggestions about replacements for a 2014 California Touring?

Attached is what my bearings look like, after cleaning them up with kerosene and lots of elbow grease.View attachment 15333

Damn - that's another job you just added to my todo list - Not there yet with the mileage, but "prevention is better than cure" as we can all see.

Just out of interest did you ride a lot though water/winter (or pressure wash) or is this what all we summer riders can expect too?

 

[dennisj]

Paul D. I have not pressure washed a motorcycle since I was a teenager. I do invariably experience some rain while riding. Usually, if I'm only 10 miles from my destination I'll ride through it. The only thing I can say about use is that I ride this bike all four seasons when possible. Less often in the dead of winter and the mid summer heat we get in our middle east coast states.

The top bearing was easy so I did it while I was doing the steering stem torque check/adjust with the 10,000 mile, second service. I now realize the extra effort to check/lubricate the lower bearing is not that much more so I'll never neglect it again. I think the grease MotoGuzzi put in there was much too little and it had to be an inferior quality because by the time I got to it after 2.5 years of riding the grease was bone dry, clumpy no longer capable of lubricating or protecting anything from the elements.

The lower bearing dust cover is inadequate and I now know that it is not weather proof. At least it isn't weather proof without being fully loaded with grease. You can see the lower weather seal in the photograph above, it is that stepped rubber disk just below the lower race. I took that picture to show the race as well as the bearing so I zoomed in real close, what you may not notice is that the background in that picture is the lower triple tree "brace" of the steering stem.

The service manual calls for a torque value of 36 lb ft, which I thought I properly set at second service. However, when I removed the steering stem nut I double checked the torque, I was surprised to find that I had to go up to 44 lb ft. of torque to loosen the steering stem nut. I either over torqued them at service time (likely) of they somehow tightened up themselves over the next 15,000 miles (I don't see how this is possible.)

 

[PaulDavies]

Paul D. I have not pressure washed a motorcycle since I was a teenager. I do invariably experience some rain while riding. Usually, if I'm only 10 miles from my destination I'll ride through it. The only thing I can say about use is that I ride this bike all four seasons when possible. Less often in the dead of winter and the mid summer heat we get in our middle east coast states.

The top bearing was easy so I did it while I was doing the steering stem torque check/adjust with the 10,000 mile, second service. I now realize the extra effort to check/lubricate the lower bearing is not that much more so I'll never neglect it again. I think the grease MotoGuzzi put in there was much too little and it had to be an inferior quality because by the time I got to it after 2.5 years of riding the grease was bone dry, clumpy no longer capable of lubricating or protecting anything from the elements.

The lower bearing dust cover is inadequate and I now know that it is not weather proof. At least it isn't weather proof without being fully loaded with grease. You can see the lower weather seal in the photograph above, it is that stepped rubber disk just below the lower race. I took that picture to show the race as well as the bearing so I zoomed in real close, what you may not notice is that the background in that picture is the lower triple tree "brace" of the steering stem.

The service manual calls for a torque value of 36 lb ft, which I thought I properly set at second service. However, when I removed the steering stem nut I double checked the torque, I was surprised to find that I had to go up to 44 lb ft. of torque to loosen the steering stem nut. I either over torqued them at service time (likely) of they somehow tightened up themselves over the next 15,000 miles (I don't see how this is possible.)

I guess the next logical thing to do would be to check the swing arm bearing and see if any horrors await

 

[PaulDavies]

Paul D. I have not pressure washed a motorcycle since I was a teenager. I do invariably experience some rain while riding. Usually, if I'm only 10 miles from my destination I'll ride through it. The only thing I can say about use is that I ride this bike all four seasons when possible. Less often in the dead of winter and the mid summer heat we get in our middle east coast states.

The top bearing was easy so I did it while I was doing the steering stem torque check/adjust with the 10,000 mile, second service. I now realize the extra effort to check/lubricate the lower bearing is not that much more so I'll never neglect it again. I think the grease MotoGuzzi put in there was much too little and it had to be an inferior quality because by the time I got to it after 2.5 years of riding the grease was bone dry, clumpy no longer capable of lubricating or protecting anything from the elements.

The lower bearing dust cover is inadequate and I now know that it is not weather proof. At least it isn't weather proof without being fully loaded with grease. You can see the lower weather seal in the photograph above, it is that stepped rubber disk just below the lower race. I took that picture to show the race as well as the bearing so I zoomed in real close, what you may not notice is that the background in that picture is the lower triple tree "brace" of the steering stem.

The service manual calls for a torque value of 36 lb ft, which I thought I properly set at second service. However, when I removed the steering stem nut I double checked the torque, I was surprised to find that I had to go up to 44 lb ft. of torque to loosen the steering stem nut. I either over torqued them at service time (likely) of they somehow tightened up themselves over the next 15,000 miles (I don't see how this is possible.)

Reminds me of my old mountain bike days from many years ago, inadequate sealing, too much water. There used to a thing called a HeadSox that you wrapped around the lower head bearing. It was basically a piece of velcroed neoprene that also folded under the bearing to keep out the worst of the water - wonder if such a thing exists for motorbikes

 

[dennisj]

I guess the next logical thing to do would be to check the swing arm bearing and see if any horrors await

My rear drive wheel splines were pretty well lubricated, so I think I was hoping the same (conscientious) employee installed the swing arm.

However, your point is well taken. Next chance I get I'll be looking. I just looked at the parts schematic and it looks like Moto Guzzi engineers used sealed caged roller bearings, though I'm taking nothing for granted and I will check during the next rear tire replacement.

Thanks.