Breva 1100 won't idle and runs like sh_t

[Bob Bernstein]

Thanks Gentlemen,
In response to your posts, I don't think it is oil on plugs because with a fresh plug. The motor runs fine for a few minutes till I worry about overheating, but as soon as I shut it down and pull the new plug, it is fouled with heavy black soot- not oilly at all. Graham, I think that you hit the nail on the head with idea that the injector is malfunctioning. As far a smoky exhaust, that is not the case, I did check to see if that was happening - exhaust was clear.
Since this all started, I did install a new battery and the electrics do seem a little erratic, i.e. neither the tack nor the speedometer return to zero, but are hanging up around 2500-3000 for the tack and 30-40 MPH when the key is turned off. So the idea of faulty or intermittent injector really sounds plausible. Today, it is supposed to be quite nice here in Chicago area and I am thinking of getting it out on the highway to really get things warmed up. Hopefully, that will do as suggested here, to give it the "100 mile tune-up".
It is about 65 miles to the dealer so if I make it there, it may work itself out or the dealer will work it out! Part of my problem really is that between the early March cold weather and then being sick, I have not been able to ride much at all and certainly not on this bike.

All the time and interest by the members of this site has really been most appreciated

 

[GrahamNZ]

Bob

Good luck.

If the dealer has an Axone or VDSTS he could try clearing all dashboard and Ecu logged faults. Given the other malfunctions you mention, that may even cure your problems.

Graham

 

[Bob Bernstein]

Graham,
Trailered the bike out to dealer and in about 15 seconds he had it running and hooked up Axione, which indicated something needed servicing. Then after a screwdriver twist here and there and it ran very good. I couldn’t believe it how fast he did it. He took tank off and checked and changed the fuel filter. It was getting to be closing time and there was a still a fault code showing but by this time battery was a down and will have to be cleared up tomorrow. The great news is that it did not seem to be anything terribly wrong for which I am grateful. I am now thinking I’m a worry wert! I’ll know more tomorrow.
Bob

 

[xenarchi]

Bob Bernstein wrote:

I am now thinking I’m a worry wert! I’ll know more tomorrow.
Bob

That's ok, there is a lot of that around here.

 

[Bob Bernstein]

Zenarchi, thanks for the reassurance.
Got bike back today and dealer has it running better than it ever. The electrical glitches and fault codes took time to clear up with Azione and then dealer checked and carefully balanced fuel injection and checked my tinkering to make sure I didn’t screw anything else up! Actually, he went over the whole bike, then test rode it.
What caused fouled plugs? What caused all my instruments to go haywire, the hard starting and bad idling? I am really am not sure I completely understand what happened, but dealer thinks when the 30 amp fuses were removed and then reinserted, it’s best to disconnect battery first!! When removing the 30 amp fuses there were a lot of electrical noises, however, the bike made those noises without the key on! So disconnecting battery first makes some sense.
Jim Baron, owner and master mechanic at Rose Farm Classics in Woodstock, Illinois runs a great shop. I have known him for some 20+ years as he was the mechanic at a large BMW shop. Sometime in the 1980 or 90’s the dealer took on Moto Guzzi. Jim is now the Guzzi dealer with a long history and knowledge of these Italian marvels. He is also a great BMW mechanic and still services both brands. I feel lucky he is nearby.

 

[GrahamNZ]

Bob

Thanks for your report. Good to hear that your bike is sweet and your dealer great.

Generally it is a good idea to disconnect the battery earth before doing any electrical work, but it surprises me a bit that removing a fuse should confuse the system. Then again it is a Guzzi we're talking about. On Buells it's recommended to pull the lighting fuse while tuning the bike so that the lights don't stay on without the engine running. Of course the Breva doesn't need that because the lights don't come on below 800rpm.

Enjoy
Graham

 

[RJVB]

I didn't know the lights shut off below 800rpm ... but then again the engine kills itself under that regime — and I did know the lights come on only with the engine running

Re-connecting the battery earth also causes "electrical noises", and the fuel pump will run for a bit. At least, that happens on my bike. We all know that modern bikes are never completely "off", so any kind of foul contact (on a terminal, on a fuse, ...) that's broken and then re-established can cause sparks, surges etc. if there's enough power behind it. It's uncanny that such things can confuse the ECU or dashboard computer to the extent described here, but then again I presume this cannot be excluded as long as the confusable bits (EEPROMS, Flash memory, that sort of thing) are rewritable under logic control (i.e. without requiring a physical switch to be toggled or connection to be made).

Does anyone actually know what the Axone does when you clear errors? One can clear those from the dashboard, with the service code, but is it plausible that the Axone would in fact just rewrite the EEPROM with the proper values, map(s) etc?

 

[GrahamNZ]

RJVB

Interesting post, thanks. While I don't know what Axone and VDSTS do when asked to clear Ecu errors, there must be something more to it than when clearing Dashboard errors using the bike's own Diagnostic mode. Maybe Todd knows more?

Graham

 

[Mike.C]

GrahamNZ wrote:

Of course the Breva doesn't need that because the lights don't come on below 800rpm.

I have in the back of my mind that it is 400RPM, I seem to remember reading it in the service or some other manual somwhere in a description of the start up procedure.

Not that it matters, or makes one jot of difference.

 

[vincedeguzzi]

Hello Graham

My name is vince, I am from Switzerland.

I have read your articel, and I am very happy! After almost 8 month, I found someone speaking about this sacred-screw.
In the meantime I tryed almost everything! Now I managed to make a TPS reset by myself, using Ducatidiag.

Now I have back my idle-gas, I feel, it is not perfect, but better then nothing. Without the TPS reset, it was not possible to get back the idle-gas. After reading your article, I know now, for what this sacred screw is.
In eurpope, they say, that if you touch, or only look to long at this screw, you can never again use your bike!!!

I never cared about this, I adjust the sacred-srew, with no success (at that time, I did not know about TPS reset and so on). Nevertheless, my Breva still worked, I made about 30'000km with the wrong adjustement, and nothing happend.

Tomorrow I will try, what you describe! I am looking forward.

Graham, my main question is the follow:
Assume, that the Breva comes out new from the factory, everything is perfect set.
Is it correct, that on the idle position, the right throttle is completely closed, and the left set to 4.5-4.9?

Thanks a lot for your answer.
best regards from zurich
vincedeguzzi

 

[john zibell]

vincedeguzzi

I don't know if Graham is still monitoring this forum so I'll give you an answer. The right TB is set via the balance adjustment at high RPM. That said, at idle it will be open close to the same amount as the left hand TB. Since you do the high speed sync with both air bypass screws closed, at idle you will open the screw on the TB with the highest vacuum (closed a little more than the other) to achieve idle sync.

 

[vincedeguzzi]

Hello Zibell

Thanks for your answer and help.

I did yesterday exactely what Graham wrote. It is quite ok now!
I must say, that the main reason was, to safe petrol. In fact, if
everything is well balanced, the petrol consume is much lower.

This morning, for the same 50km, my breva1100 needed 5.5l/100km
Yesterday, 6.8l/100km. So this a big difference for me.

Thanks again
vincedeguzzi