Build your own Le Mans

[sandy]

OK so I've developed a serious crush on the original Lemans.
Trouble is that really nice one's are fetching serious money.
Much more than I am able or willing to spend, so I'm wondering.
How difficult would it be to build a replica ?
I'm really not bothered about having every nut, bolt and switch original.
Provided it's got the look of the original, that would be fine for me.
So to all you experts.
If I bought, say, an old Cali, would stuff like the tank and seat unit from the Lemana be compatible ?
Has anyone here built a Lemans rep from something else.
Are there companies remanufacturing parts ?
Your thoughts appreciated.

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

There's probably more LeMans knock offs running around than originals.. :shock:

 

[Series4]

A Cal 1 or T3 would be good donors as the frame and geometry are the same. Basically it's just the tank, seat and bars you'd have to change if you're happy to stay with solid discs. Repro or used fairings, side covers, seats and seat bases are readily available on fleabay. Probably the simplest/cheapest way to do it is get a LM2 and strip all the plastic off. Even a LM3 can be retro kitted if you can live with the square fin engine.

Peter

 

[ghezzi]

Well Sandy, seein' you is a Londoner you get 2 options.
Option 1. Buy any Tonti framed model from the late 70's up to the last of the Cali range.
There will be fiddling with bracketry to fit sidecovers and seat bases but it will all be basic fabrication.
If you add clip ons then maybe clutch cable and brake hoses will need to be shortened.
With this you have the option of early carby models or later EFI models.

Option 2. Bellagio 940. It may be square fin but it has a Tonti frame and that sweet short stroke motor, spoked wheels which are retro but the CARC and 6 speed are such a vast improvement over the old twin shock 5 speed.

My first Guzzi was a MKIII Le mans, I love retro and thought I would always return to one for my final bike.
The idea of modern (or close to brand new) mechanicals with old school styling is also appealing, but without the clipons and rearsets.

This is where I'm at so far but the real eye catcher will be a polished alloy Mk1 Le Mans tank which I hope to have by next Easter.

Later on in life, if I realy want my retro Le Mans, it will only be a seat and side covers away.

 

[Guy R]

If you're not worried about origionality, building a replica is a good way to go. To get the real look you will need an early Tonti frame bike with the skinny forks and short and narrow swing arm and tyre combinations. Not to mention the all important round cylinders. The only way to get that rangy but pretty look of the originals.

If you can live with the square finned look, a later bike will deliver a better handling and easier to ride machine. Depending how late you go ie Cali frame, you get extra frame bracing, better and braced forks, longer swing arm and slightly wider tyres. Also the Cali engine has a flatter torque curve and generally runs smoother. Being older I'd go a later bike.

Genuine Le Mans bikes take commitment to sort out and you have a heavy throttle and clutch along with bone breaking suspension and a camy engine that likes attention. An awesome experience but takes a real man to live with as an everyday bike. Nice to have one for a Sunday blast though!

 

[Tonerjockey]

While yer at the build, don't fergit to use the crappiest flat flaking paint on the frame and typically broken side covers.



heheheh

Alex

 

[sandy]

Thanks guys for the great input.
I am particularly interested in the Bellagio option but does that really have the Tonti frame.
Forgive my ignorance but it looks more like the Griso frame, and I don't see the lower frame rails that I thought the Tonti has.
Anyway.
I guess if I were going to embark on this project, I would want modern running gear / brakes and engine, but with the classic looks of the original Lemans.
I guess what I might like to end up with, is a big block version of what I already have, which is the V7 Cafe Racer.
I'm fairly handy with the spanners, and provided these Tonti Guzzi's really do use the modular approach, I can see this being quite a straightforward project, especially as performance engine mods are not part of the criteria.
What I'd like ot end up with is something like this, but using original Lemans cosmetics.

http://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Andre ... cafe+racer

 

[ghezzi]

Hi Sandy, as you point out there are basic differences between the Bellagio and any original Tonti, but under the fuel tank its all pretty much the same, meaning a MK1 thru Mk5 Le mans tank will fit. Yes the bolt on lower frame rails have been removed (a common mod for race bikes) and the single sided swingarm and pivot is all totally different. Griso's have a steel tube twin spar type perimeter frame.

If you want EFI + 1064cc buy any late model Cali with the old bevel box and twin shocks, but some have heavy chromed steel rims and some have alloy tubeless rims with spokes mounted at the outer edge of the rim. I love the look of my alloys & spokes.

http://wiki.ab.sk/doku.php?id=guzzi:bellagio
Check this out "Modified Bike Pictures" (bottom of page) for custom Bellagios. Your imagination is the only limiting factor

 

[sandy]

Fantastic advice guys.
I guess the advantage of using the Bellagio as a base is I can ride it while I'm building it to the spec I want.
The cafe racer version in the link above is awsome.
I'm going to look at a Bellagio at a dealers about an hour from where I live next week.
If the deals right, I may well go for it.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Biggest advantage to the Bellagio is that you get more modern suspension and the six speed box. From there building things is not too tricky but remember that you'll need a fuel pump either in or outside the tank and a fuel return if you go for the outside option.

One of the biggest problems with a 'Roll yer own' Lemans doppel is that any 'Cooking' model from the seventies or eighties will be well past its use-by date and will need a LOT of work to get it up to speed. Remember, they are all over 30 years old now.

Later, post Mk III Lemans' have taller steering heads which can compromise the 'Look' you're after. Late model Calis also suffer from this and the much longer swingarm. If you want an early LeMans 'Look' you need an early 'Low Frame' model as the base bike. T, T3, SP1000.

Pete

 

[Rafael]

I agree, the suspension on the CARC bikes is so much better, guess so is everything else for that matter. I can't push my SP as hard as the Breva. The US CX100 (LMs2) would be another candidate, its the least expensive of the Tonti Le Manses. Remove lowers and change the fairing and your done for the looks. Change the carbs to the 36mm crank tops and it'll be hard to tell it from a 850 LMs. The 850-T has the rear drum brake to deal with. The forks on the 850 LMs are closer together than other Tontis, so getting the fairing on may take some extra work.

I've never seen a Belagio in person, guess Piagio doesn’t think we deserve them here. I didn't realize it has a Tonti based frame, but it makes sense since they recycled a Cali tank. Checked out the parts book, nice. It's great that some of the Tonti frame is still used on the new big block bikes. But the Bella frame has the taller steering head tube like the late Calis but I bet clip-ons would visually lower the top triple clamp.

The V7C is a Tonti frame as well, so I bet the V7C tank would slide right on; you'd get a LMs tank with the fuel pump already to go! Most of the LMs body replica parts are still available and with a little welding magic rework of the seat frame you can get the original rear fender and seat to go right on. The only design element that would be a challenge to match with the Bela would be the dual exhaust cans. An up sweep starting just above swing arm pivot similar to the pipe on the Breva high muffler offered by Todd. Or take a look at the GT Griso mufflers, a L & R may work with narrower cans. Forget the cast wheels; stick with the spoked rims. If you wait long enough you might get lucky and MG will produce a CARC based LeMans, I'll bet a dollar that we'll see one in the next 5 years.

Happy New Year everybody!

 

[Series4]

I think user Moz has fitted clip-ons to his Bella? A search of the forum will find the thread

 

[Luka]

I started a project just like this about two years ago , because i used to have an original Mk1 in the early eighties that was a great bike.
Just like you I couldn't get hold of one (or afford one these days) so i decided a Mk2 would do and to restore that to a Le mans type spec. Then things changed a little and The Cafe Racer look really suits these bikes and this is what i ended up with. If you check out my blog, it shows a complete build history from the start and could give you a few hints tips maybe ?
http://guzzicafe.blogspot.com/

If i knew how to post pics on here i would insert some ??????
heres a you tube clip if it works ?

[youtube]1GO2Sn6rifA[/youtube]

 

[GTM®]

YouTube link fixed above, pics just require a URL surrounded by the img tags;

or I prefer the images to be hosted here... feel free to send them to me direct email.

If you want a solid/daily rider, great advice on buying something newer. It will take countless hours, twice as long and twice as much money as you think, but it is worth it if it's what you want/like to do.

I'm surprised no one linked the Bellagio turned modern LM yet;

And this was my project, '02 Cal Stone to 1100SS;

 

[cooperman]

Thanks guys for the great input.
I am particularly interested in the Bellagio option but does that really have the Tonti frame.
Forgive my ignorance but it looks more like the Griso frame, and I don't see the lower frame rails that I thought the Tonti has.
Anyway.
I guess if I were going to embark on this project, I would want modern running gear / brakes and engine, but with the classic looks of the original Lemans.
I guess what I might like to end up with, is a big block version of what I already have, which is the V7 Cafe Racer.
I'm fairly handy with the spanners, and provided these Tonti Guzzi's really do use the modular approach, I can see this being quite a straightforward project, especially as performance engine mods are not part of the criteria.
What I'd like ot end up with is something like this, but using original Lemans cosmetics.

http://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Andre ... cafe+racer

Bellagio with v7 tank and seat but still original bars, hence very comfortable to ride for several hours.