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CARC Check

Doug, here's what I did:
First, with the bike on the center stand..take off the rear brake caliper, then the wheel. Disconnect the various bits that are clipped onto the swingarm, like speed sensor and the other odd stuff clipped to the underside of the swingarm. Tie the swingarm to the frame so it won't flop down when you disconnect the shock linkage. Unbolt the reaction arm and tie it up out of the way.
Take the muffler off so you can get to other stuff easier.
IMG_0394-M.jpg

Disconnect the shock from the linkage, then take the entire linkage off the bike...the link has three sets of bearings so be careful to not drop them out...they are all loose needle bearings. I recommend laying this out on a towel so you can then grease the bearings....they will need it.
IMG_0395-M.jpg


IMG_0396-M.jpg


Cut off the zip tie holding the front bellows to the swingarm. Now you can loosen the two bolts pinching the swing arm on the left side. Then you can use your special socket (from Todd) to take off the castle nut on the swingarm axle. Next you use a big honkin' allen wrench to actually unscrew the axle.
IMG_0411-M.jpg

Pull the axle out and it helps to have someone else holding the swingarm. I beieve I actually unbolted the CARC prior to this step so the swingarm would not weigh so much. The CARC comes apart easily and you will need to do that anyway.

Now you have the CARC off but the drive shaft is still attached to the tranny because there is a clip inside the U-joint that is holding it to the splines on the trans output shaft. Tapping on the U-joint will get it to come free. Slap lots of high moly grease on the splines of both trans output shaft and CARC input shaft.

Here you can see the clip:
IMG_0405-M.jpg


Now is the time to inspect the swingarm bearings. They will need grease.
This is one of my swingarm bearings as it came out:
IMG_0398-M.jpg

I slathered it up good.
I think any good waterproof bearing grease is OK here.
IMG_0403-M.jpg


Now you can start to put it all back together. install the driveshaft first, then the swingarm. Be careful with the seals that go between the swingarm and the frame, Pete R. says they tend to fall out, mine did not. Now you can line up the CARC end of the drive shaft with the CARC splines and bolt the CARC back together. The rest is just reversing everything else you have done.

I'm sure there is something I have forgotten. I'll let others correct me since I am writing this from memory and, well, I'm old.

Peter Y.
 
It isn't necessary to remove the driveshaft from the transmission output. There should be just enough room to remove then put the bearing back in. It is only necessary to remove the driveshaft it the bearing race needs to be replaced.
 
Thanks so much for that Peter. And the addendum, John. Just finished a siding job (GOD, at my age!!!) so tomorrow I can get at it. Will post with pics if I find anything odd. (But let's all just sacrifice a small shrubbery so that doesn't happen.) :laugh:
 
Well, I guess not enough shrubberies were sacrificed. No pics are needed. It was obvious as soon as I pulled the swingarm. Swingarm body was holding a good pint of oil. Not sure if it was CARC or tranny. Looked like CARC. But the shaft at the tranny has a good 1/8th inch of sideways play. I've seen enough. Will button it up and load it in my pickup for a good 350 mile trip to the dealer. :(
 
So you're saying that the gearbox output shaft has 1/8th of an inch of side play?! :shock:

Boy oh boy, if that's the case its going to be one hell of an expensive repair but it would of sounded awful when you were riding it!

Pete
 
I know, Pete. I know. Riding with the sweet sound of the Mistral, earplugs in, I could hear some tranny whine. But not a lot.
Only recourse I've got now is to let the pros and the lawyers handle it and hope it doesn't leave me desolate on the street.
One thing for sure, I may not get another ride in this summer with the way Guzzi handles warranty and parts issues. Altho the tech on the phone pretty well told me is it's been smacked, it won't be a warranty. :dry:
 
Bummer. Doug, there's a Norge 8V trans on eBay for parts if/as needed. Probably a solid investment for you in a time and money scenario. If I can be of help, let me know.
 
Thanks Todd. I'll keep that in mind. And as a post script to PeterY. My bearings were well lubed, unlike yours. Just another amazing fun fact from the Guzzi Factory. :lol:
 
Pete, thanks, yes I'm aware of that... and for sure it's a 2012 Norge 8V trans.
 
In which case yes, it would be the ideal transplant.

I have to say that this is the first 'Nuovo Six Speed' of either the first or second generation I've heard of shitting the bed. I hope it doesn't start another "Oh my god! The sky is falling!" Thread. The Nuovo six speed is bulletproof.

Pete.
 
pete roper said:
I have to say that this is the first 'Nuovo Six Speed' of either the first or second generation I've heard of shitting the bed. I hope it doesn't start another "Oh my god! The sky is falling!" Thread. The Nuovo six speed is bulletproof.

Pete.
Click to expand...
Pete, from what I can deduce from this thread, this bike suffered a hit up the back end. Doubt the gearbox is to blame.
 
After a two day run in the truck, the bike is now in the hands of the Kamloops dealer. The owner is an open and friendly guy and his Guzzi man has 30 + years experience. Plus he rebuilt a Stelvio tranny not too long ago. So, hopefully they can get to the bottom of the problems. And in this century. :eek:
 
After having the bike for a full week now, not a peep out of River City Cycle. This can't be good. Got a feeling they are in communication with Piaggio about the tranny. God, I hope they aren't using the old method of converse. You know. Chisel it into a tablet and strap it to the back of a snail?
Will bit my nails till Tuesday and then give them a call. :dry:
 
Called Rivercity today. The leak was out of the transmission (English version. You know, the one at the engine?) Was caused by the impact. The tech says the output shaft was within limits and I could move it so much because of the damaged output seal not holding it firm. No leaks at the CARC. It was all tranny fluid. Seal is on order and I hope it doesn't take forever. Still wouldn't mind heading for Alaska. Oh, and the warranty question? They turned it down. Go figure. He didn't mention the accident. :roll:
 
Toadride said:
Called Rivercity today. The leak was out of the transmission (English version. You know, the one at the engine?) Was caused by the impact. The tech says the output shaft was within limits and I could move it so much because of the damaged output seal not holding it firm. No leaks at the CARC. It was all tranny fluid. Seal is on order and I hope it doesn't take forever. Still wouldn't mind heading for Alaska. Oh, and the warranty question? They turned it down. Go figure. He didn't mention the accident. :roll:
Click to expand...

I'm worried about the techs answer to you. The seal is not the part that keeps the shaft from moving laterally, that is the job of the output bearing. Yes the seal may be damaged, but it is probably due to the bearing failing, or the casting where the bearing sits has been deformed from impact.
 
Sorry, I'm with John on this. Since when has a small piece of synthetic rubber with a spring inside been considered a suitable support for a shaft taking major lateral thrust???

If the shaft has ANY lateral movement at all, detectable by hand the bearing that is up porting it is fucked and consequently the mesh of the gears on the shaft will be similarly fucked and the angular displacement of the shaft will place intolerable loadings on both the selector forks and the shaft they move on.

Now it may simply be that your understanding and descriptions are either inaccurate or simply a bit paranoid. I'm NOT saying you are wrong or that your fears aren't justified, simply that your descriptions, which are all we have to go on, may not be scientifically accurate and therefore there is no way we can make a true diagnosis or offer a sensible prognosis of what the true problem may be.

Looking at the history I can't see how getting shunted up the arse would impose any major loads on the gearbox output shaft bearing unless the entire swingarm had disintegrated or the frame had been bent beyond the point of destruction.

If the output shaft bearing has collapsed the damage will be monstrous but it would of been so noisy and so destructive as to render the vehicle instantly unrideable or at least its what I would imagine would happen unless the gearbox components are made from some sort of magical substance I know nothing about!. As far as I can make out this isn't what happened. This being the case there isn't much advice we can offer.

I like gearboxes. In fact I like them much more than motors! But without the wretched thing on a bench in front of me I can't really offer much in the way of advice.

One thing is certain though. If the bearing is collapsing, and ANY radial movement in the shaft will indicate this, then replacing the seal will achieve precisely 7/8ths of fuck-all in terms of addressing the issues with your gearbox!

Pete
 
Man! What am I supposed to do? I guess I'll cut and paste your replies and send them off to them. They are not solitary Guzzi people and I don't think they are even aware of online sites such as this and others. I will firmly request they have another look at the shaft play and explain how any movement at all is within tolerances. :x
 
I'm convinced that the 'incident' at the rear tire would have had to have done a LOT of damage before it bothered the rear transmission bearing. I suspect you simply had a seal fail, and that is all. Or if there is movement, then the transmission bearing has failed on its own.
There are so many other support bearings and such that would have had to fail, before there would be enough movement in the driveshaft to damage the transmission.
 
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