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CARC strip for bearing replacement.

GTM®

GTM®

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GT di Razza Pura
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Guzzi notes the Final Drive as not serviceable on all newer model Guzzi outside of the outer oil seal. That said...

Take it off, drain the oil out.

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Remove the clips from the top boot.

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This exposes the reaction arm.

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Front boot is retained by plate and two self tapping screws.

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Remove it.

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Front boot is now *loose* in housing.

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Undo and remove all the bolts that hold the two halves of the case together. Then using a big flat bladed screwdriver between the obvious pry points, (NOT BETWEEN THE MATING SURFACES OF THE CASE! on the case crack the sealing goo between the cases. Holding the drive side case and giving a good 'Thwack' to the center of the crown wheel/ wheel mounting boss with a dead-blow hammer will assist here. You AREN'T trying to completely separate the cases, simply break the seal. No need to be brutal!

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Once the seal is broken turn the CARC over and heat the center with a heat gun. Give it a couple of minutes and you will simply be able to lift the RHS case off the CARC mechanism.

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Voila!

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Use a press, making sure that the crown wheel part of the CARC doesn't foul the blocks, to press out the entire CARC from the LH side case.

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Bearing is now exposed.

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Expensive seal is unfortunately sacrificial. Pry it out, heat case with heat gun to drop out *big* Bearing, take new big bearing out of fridge and drop into hot case and press or knock home. Re-insert and press home CARC. Apply sealant to RH side case, (I'd try Threebond 1211.) sparingly. Heat LH case a bit and drop onto RH case. Press home as gently as possible. Use bolts to pull it all back together in a crosshatch pattern. Reassemble the rest using reverse of disassembly.

The clips for the top boot can be substituted with ones from any Auto shop for attaching the boots to CV joints of FWD cars.

As an addendum to above as I've had cause to go further into one now. Note that Guzzi say that the CARC is a 'Non Serviceable' component? Well, yes and no. There is no way to easily get the pinion out of the 'Bridge' but crown wheel bearings wouldn't be too hard.

Getting the crown wheel out also requires knife edges, heat and a 30 ton press but it's doable.

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Bloody difficult to get the pinion out as you can't push it, (And its bearings.) out from the back.

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Both of the Pivot bearings can be replaced.

Parts 4 and 5 below

CARC Parts

and while it may be possible to replace the actual crown wheel bearings with a bit of diligence they aren't listed as a separate part. Also because of the construction of the pinion assembly it is pretty much impossible to replace the pinion bearings or at least it would be very, very hard.
 
Excellent break down on rear drive unit. In reading about the BMW GS final drives it seems they are replaced by the factory rather than rebuilt by the dealers and they have a relatively high incidence of failure. Nice to know that the Guzzi is relatively straight forward. Have you had to repair many of these?
 
Billd said:
Thanks Pete, excellent break down on rear drive unit. In reading about the BMW GS final drives it seems they are replaced by the factory rather than rebuilt by the dealers and they have a relatively high incidence of failure. Nice to know that the Guzzi is relatively straight forward. Have you had to repair many of these?
Click to expand...

The Guzzi unit too is only supplied as a unit. You can purchase the cases, boots, bearings for the crownwheel etc. but the actual 'Buisness' bit of the CARC only comes as part of a complete unit, no crownwheels, pinnions, shims or whatever available as spares.

After the initial run of bad bearings the component seems to have been generally very reliable. I've done a couple of failed bearings outside the recall range, one of them on my own 1100G, but it had a 'Bad' bearing even though it was quite a way out of the recall run. The ones I have seen fail are usually on bikes whose owners have either through ignorance or choice got the compression damping and springing set up really hard on the back. I've also had to replace a couple of pinion seals. Something I haven't shown in this photo-essay as the seal is sacrificial and the one in this unit was fine.

The strory behind this one is that it is one I rebuilt before but it was leaking, hard to tell exactly where from, but I tore it down again to re gloop the cases. Tht's why I haven't removed the seal or 'Big' bearing as they have already been done.

Pete
 
I didn't realise pre load / rebound damping could possibly reduce the life of the bearing. I have wound the preload up a bit (4 clicks from soft) but have set the rebound at 10 clicks (8 clicks maximum), I wound up the rebound to stop the rear end bouncing around when the suspension was hot, going though sweeping corners with a rough surface. This change seemed to stop this behaviour, now I am a little worried that it may damage the bearing. Wondering whether I should wind it back to 6 clicks.

I have the bike on a stand at the moment, to free up / lubricate the front disc buttons. I have checked the rear wheel for play, I can feel a very slight amount of play (my father tested it and reckons there is none), which I don't think was there before. I am going to check and see if it has changed in another 1000km, if so then I guess there is a problem. The seal is fine, no leak. I checked the prices, BMW (Sydney) wants $50 for the seal and $180 for the bearing. The bearing shop down the road quoted $120 for the bearing (FAG), 1 day for delivery.

Bike is a 1200 Sport with 14 000km on the clock.

Pete, thanks for your efforts in explaining the procedure here, really appreciated.

Jason
 
If you have the suspension mis-adjusted so that the suspension was not absorbing the bumps in the road surface properly then it could reduce bearing life as the bearing is taking a beating. If you adjusted the suspension and it improved the ride quality then it will have no negative impact on bearing life. It is when you have too much rebound dampening and the suspension packs down resulting in frequent bottoming that rebound could have a negative impact on bearing life. The same is true for compression and preload, if you have it mis-adjusted so that the rear end is not absorbing the bumps in the road but instead either bottoming frequently or not compressing to begin with then bearing life may be shortened.
Improving the action of the suspension will not decrease bearing life.
 
Great post. Could be a few mechanics will benefit from it if they get to see it.

One aspect concerns me a bit. If the innards are pressed out from the left side, isn't there the risk that the large bearing will be pressed out of the cold case and the bearing housing damaged? Or is the interference between the inner race and the axleshaft modest enough for that not to be a problem?

When my CARC was stripped for bearing replacement, both case halves were heated and lifted off the bearing outer races and then a bearing puller was used to remove the bearings from the axleshaft. The new bearings were heated and then pressed onto the axleshaft with a tubular drift used on the inner races to ensure the bearings were fully seated. Cases then heated and pushed over the bearing outer races.
 
Six of one and half a dozen of the other Graham.

I have found the resistance of the cold case on the bearing is greater than the resistance of the *axle* to the innner race, but at the end of the day it makes no odds really, especially if the bearing is a deader!

Pete
 
Impressive, and illustrates nicely your remark that the thing is built like something out of a tank turret!

This is in relation to what you found on Rob's CARC?

(and, erm, I take it you still have stuff to service before you attempt reassembly? :whistle: :mrgreen:)
 
Have there been any reported cases of the inner bearings giving up? I ask because one seems to be suspect here in the UK. Making a lot of noise, and reportedly two bearings require replacement, one can be replaced the other can't, so new CARC required. No play on rear wheel, or oil leak. Owner is no techie, so relying on second hand information for the moment.
The bike is a Norge, but an early one. Don't as yet know the mileage.
 
Both of the Pivot bearings can be replaced.

Parts 4 and 5 below

GU07801_12.gif


and while it may be possible to replace the actual crownwheel bearings with a bit of dilligence they aren't listed as a separate part. Also because of the construction of the pinion assembley it is pretty much impossible to replace the pinion bearings or at least it would be very, very hard.

Most likely is that the pinion retaining nut has spun off, what bike is it? Not an early Norge by any chance??

Pete
 
Well in that case I'd bet a bus load of beehives that it has exactly the same problem experienced by Bill H, Rob R. and a couple of other poor buggers.

It seems that sometime in the early run of Norges they put a 'New Boy' on assembley and the tang on the peg nut lock washer wasn't bent up t lock the nut leading to consequent failure. Do a search back on the problem here, (I'm too stupid to do this, I apologise. :oops: ).

FWIW. I whined at our importer and Ken the Service manager whined at Guzzi and they are providing a new CARC inside for Rob's bike even though it was out of warranty (It was VERY low miles, Rob doesn't get to ride a lot poor sod.). Because it is July/August the factory has been slow in responding to the claim so Ken has sent me a whole, brand new, in the box, CARC for Rob's bike and we'll fight it out with the factory later. Problem is that this CARC is brown and Rob's being a Norge is silver. Rather than ripping the thing to bits though I'm just going to get it colour match painted. Much better than pulling apart a brand new unit simply to build it into a case of the correct colour with all the assorted risks of leaks etc. involved which CAN happen as the one I've lent Rob is leaking a bit but I think that was my fault and I won't make the same mistake again.

What I would suggest is take the CARC off and you can look down the inside of the seal holder and see the peg nut. Use a thin screwdriver or a seal pick to poke about at the nut. If it moves AT ALL? Take the case apart and remove the seal holder, (well, this will need doing anyway.) and you will almost certainly find the nut threadless and the lock washer for the pinion nut has no external tangs bent up but the internal tang that engages with the pinion shaft missing. Once that nut gets loose the preload on the pinion bearings is lost and it all goes to hell in a handbasket very quickly.

Pete
 
Thanks Pete, done the search and found the references. Gets me worried too, as my Norge is one of the early ones,VIN *****111409.

It is heartening that you managed to get a replacement internal though.
 
Brian. You can check yours easily too. Just drop the CARC off and what would be best would be take it to a dealer and ask them to take off the seal holder, (Duh! Just realized that this thread was the one with my stipdown in :roll: :lol: ). That allows a really good squizz but requires splitting the cases. With the seal holder in you can still see the poxy peg-nut down the inside of the seal holder and you should be able to see if one of the peg-nut slots has a tang bent up in it. Any doubt and I'd have it apart to check. A new CARC os hideously expensive, (Six grand plus in AU$!!!) and if the bike is out of warranty you might not be as lucky as I was with Rob's.

Pete
 
I'll be doing that very soon Pete. Bike is certainly out of warranty, but all these ones will be if it only affected a few early models.
Replacement CARC is 1700 of our english worthless pounds.
My CARC has been apart once, to have the big bearing replaced, but I doubt they checked the input shaft nut at the time.
Was the problem that the outer locking tang was never engaged, or was it a problem with the inner tang?
 
Outer locking tang not bent up. Once the nut moves, (Not hard as the preload is retained simply by the nut torque which is miniscule and the locking tang on the outer edge of the washer.) the pinion will start to move about. Hammering forces will then destroy the threads on the nut and tear off the tang that goes into the slot on the pinion. Bye-Bye unit....

Pete
 
Well that was an hour well spent for peace of mind.
The peg nut on mine is as tight as I would expect, and the tang can clearly be seen where it should be.
There is also some green paint marking the position across the nut, and that's still where it was.

The point being, it does only take an hour to check, and it really is easy too.
 
Brian UK said:
Well that was an hour well spent for peace of mind.
The peg nut on mine is as tight as I would expect, and the tang can clearly be seen where it should be.
There is also some green paint marking the position across the nut, and that's still where it was.

The point being, it does only take an hour to check, and it really is easy too.
Click to expand...

Very nice to see someone who is actually willing to act pre-emptively Brian, rather than simply snivelling and whining, quite often about problems that don't exist :evil: .

As you say. It takes an hour and no special skills and can save a host of pain and heartache so why not do it?

Brake off, wheel off, on some models speedo sensor off then another five bolts and you can simply pull the bugger backwards and off it comes. It's not rocket science is it? A quick squizz down the pinion seal holder with a flashlight will tell you if its all OK and if it is you can pop it back together. Any doubts and it can be taken down further and the problm sorted BEFORE a catastrophic failure occurs. But I suppose it is far easier and more satisfying for some to wait until something does fail and then to complain about it.

Lifes too bloody short for that in my book.

Pete
 
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