Clutch le mans

[Madkoffe]

I have a dragging clutch, not always, it just when i have it in dragging mode, i pull in the clutch and it still drag for some seconds.
The clutch is almost new, i have try to adjust leverarm and cable with no succes.
I have start to check it out before i move the gearbox and clutch, i think the inner body clutch look strange and the bearing feel not good, can this make my problem when it dragging.
The clutch works great when i drive, its just when i have it in dragmode, release the cluth and its still drag.
Some idea?

 

[john zibell]

The two plate clutch will drag if the clutch hub is worn. Did you replace the clutch hub when you did the clutch? Also you want the lever at the back of the transmission at just under 90 degrees when you have the clutch dis-engaged (no power to transmission). The clutch pushrod and associated parts shouldn't be an issue unless the pushrod is bent. Does the throw out bearing look OK?

 

[Madkoffe]

It was the last owner who change the clutch so i dont now if the clutch hub was change.
The throwout bearing look fine, but i gonna change that anyway.
I can see in the hole that something has spinning around on the walls

 

[john zibell]

You aren't far from having the gearbox out. I recommend inspecting the clutch hub. You are just a couple hours (if that long) from having the gearbox out. "crabbing" the frame is the easiest way to remove the gearbox.

 

[kiwi dave]

While you have the gearbox out, check the main input bearing for the gearbox. A worn bearing will produce erratic clutch action. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[Madkoffe]

Ok, i shall check the bearings and all stuff so i dont have to pull it apart again. :?
Do i need some special tools to get clutch apart?

 

[Mc Tool]

While you have the gearbox out, check the main input bearing for the gearbox. A worn bearing will produce erratic clutch action. Don't ask me how I know.

How do you know a worn bearing will cause erratic clutch action. :lol:
I have just replaced all the bearings and re- shimmed ( cheers P Roper ) my gearbox ( each one soursed from a different corner of the globe ) and I can still hear the -uckin thing wirring away , but all the rumbly feelings have all gone, and I thought they were just good old N Z "volcanic rock chip seal " road surface vibes (looks like giant sandpaper an the only thing that should ever touch it at speed is tires , No shit ! this stuff will kill you and not only that but it will hurt like fuck the whole time your dying ) , and now all I gotta do is stop the oil leak from the push rod o ring ( same as in above pic )

 

[Madkoffe]

Took it apart today, looks like this, what do you think?

 

[john zibell]

The wear on the clutch hub doesn't appear enough to cause your symptom. However, I don't like the looks of the hub or the friction plates. The friction plates appear to be aftermarket (Sureflex) and not stock Guzzi parts. Also a warped intermediate could be a problem as well. If you can, please post a picture of the teeth inside the flywheel. Also look closely for a buildup of clutch dust in the outer teeth. Also check that the clutch pushrod is not bent. At this point, if the flywheel is good (I suspect it is) I'd replace the hub gear, friction plates, and intermediate plate. You could try cleaning up the clutch plates and using them, but the labor involved in going in again would make me lean on just replacing everything while it is apart.

 

[Madkoffe]

Ok, think i gonna change that parts.

 

[Mc Tool]

John , I sure don't mean to take issue with you but ... I have found sureflex ( sintered bronze ) clutch plates to be very good in my ducati's and wouldn't agree to recommend biffing them just coz they are not Guzzi parts . If you know something I don't ... Id love to be put in my place
My flywheel/clutch assy looked slightly worse than yours . I wire brushed it all up and gave particular attention to any sliding surfaces . I very lightly smeared the hub with anti seizure copperslip ( I get a small amount on an old tooth brush and brush it on , theory being that there is enough lube to lube but not enough to fly off ) One thing I did notice is that the springs and pressure plate / flywheel need to be correctly aligned , if this is not done it is possible ( very likely ) that some of the springs will not sit in there holes properly and this will cause uneven spring pressure on the pressure plate which could "cock " the pressure plate and cause the clutch to drag, .... or maybe the springs themselves are knackered to varying degrees causing uneven pressure

 

[john zibell]

McTool,

In my experience I've not had good results from the bronze clutch. Stock Guzzi or the Stucci seem to work better from what I've seen. Again, a Guzzi is not a Ducati and they may work fine in the Ducati multi plate system Also I don't recommend any lube on the clutch hub. That lube will attract clutch dust that can act as an abrasive increasing wear on the hub. Using lube on a BMW is necessary, but those bikes us a single clutch plate and dust doesn't get between the clutch splines and transmission input spline due to the design of the clutch center.

You do have a good point on the clutch springs and alinement of the pressure plate. I have seen that (rarely though) but forgot to mention it. Thanks for doing so.

 

[Mc Tool]

McTool,

You do have a good point on the clutch springs and alinement of the pressure plate. I have seen that (rarely though) but forgot to mention it. Thanks for doing so.

Unfortunately ( for me , funny as all hell for all those who found out about "it" ) there is a reason this remains firmly planted in my memory ,

 

[ghezzi]

When I rebuilt my MK3 years ago, the inside of the bell housing was coated with a fine red dust. Oxidization of the clutch splines was the culprit, and they were badly worn, but hey, the bike had been round the clock more than once.

So new bosses were fitted and I greased the splines, carefully. I figured the clutch would be smoother and the splines would not rust. Doh!

Had to dismantle and rebuild engine again 5,000k later, guess what. The splines were bone dry and a red oxide dust covered anything that didn't move.

So I figure dry oxidized splines are a design feature, not a fault!

 

[Madkoffe]

I also have the red dust everywhere i have order new cluthparts now so we shall se if it works!

 

[Madkoffe]

What make the springs to look like this?
I notice that some of the spring is 2,6cm and some 2,7cm, shouldent they be 3cm?

Should i change this wheel?

 

[john zibell]

The ring gear appears to be good. The following graphic details clutch spring requirements.

 

[Madkoffe]

Thanks John.
Looks like my springs are very shot, have already order new ones.
Almost 2 mm shorter on some springs, maybe that was my problem why it was dragging.

 

[john zibell]

Thanks John.
Looks like my springs are very shot, have already order new ones.
Almost 2 mm shorter on some springs, maybe that was my problem why it was dragging.

Weak springs would cause slippage, not dragging. The important part is force at compressed distance, not free length.

 

[lucky phil]

Thanks John.
Looks like my springs are very shot, have already order new ones.
Almost 2 mm shorter on some springs, maybe that was my problem why it was dragging.

Weak springs would cause slippage, not dragging. The important part is force at compressed distance, not free length.

Clearly the free length is important to a clutch that operates correctly, as is shown in the manual diagram by the .03mm or .012" tollerance. 2mm difference is way too much.
If the free lengths differ too much then its unlikely the compression checks will be the same given that they were the same springs originally.
It will have a more dramatic effect if the short springs are all together as well. Not so bad if they are displaced evenly around the flywheel.
Could it cause draggning clutch? I believe it well could depending on the location of the short springs on the flywheel.
As an aside the best lube to use on the clutch splines is a DRY molycote used very sparingly. NOT the grease type but the spray can version. Spray some on a piece of plastic and then use a brush to apply sparingly.Good for spline wear and clutch action.
Ciao