Anyone know offhand if these Gilardoni cx/sp100 cylinders that I have in my hand will fit my T? Or similarly will the cx/sp100 heads bolt up with the T jugs? They will eventually go back to the cx100 when I re-assemble it, but for now, I wanted to try the 36mm carbs and bigger displacement on my 850t Sidecar rig.
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Cx 100 cylinders on an 850t
- Thread starter AndrewGelling
- Start date
All the parts you mentioned are interchangeable. Make sure to use the head gasket that matches the cylinder. As to the benefit of the 1000cc kit on side car rig, it would be negligible. The best improvement you could do would be side car gearing in the rear drive.
Thanks John. I have done the rear drive gear swap to the sidecar ratio, and it was indeed a huge improvement, and for 90% of the time its all I need. But what I am looking for now is more power in the hills. We've been doing two to three week trips in the rig, and when I have my wife, kid, and our gear loaded up, and we have got to climb a steep grade at highway speed, well it ain't always a comfortable experience, especially when I have some impatient yahoo behind me. Anyhow, it is less the increased displacement that I am interested in, then it is the 36mm carbs, and the heads to the cx100 are already setup for that. As I have got all the bits in hand, thought I'd try it out before plunking down the cash. But as these cylinders and heads will eventually be going onto the cx, I don't want to modify them for the T.
With the 36mm carb and CX cylinders it will just raise the RPM level where you have maximum efficiency. The higher RPM point may help you but don't expect to have more power at the same RPM as the 850 configuration. You will need to be running at higher RPM levels to possibly take advantage of the larger displacement and carb.
Amboman
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The "spigots" of the cylinders may need to be turned down in order for them to fit into the 850-T crankcase with adequate clearance. That or the case would need to be bored. The "big-bore" 88 mm Gilardoni kits come already machined to fit, but not the standard replacement 88 mm kits.
Thanks Guys. Charlie,I have the 88mm gilardoni set for the cx. So, I am good to go? I assume by standard you mean the stock guzzi cylinders?
John,can you give me a sense of what rpms we are talking about? I tend to hang around 4000, but when pushing up a decent, or long, grade, I run up to about 6000.
But I am also a bit confused. What accounts for the horsepower difference between an SP1000 engine (of the cx100) and the T. They, the T and the Sp, both have vhb30 carbs, and I believe the same bottom end, yet the info I can gather indicates a 10 to 15 horsepower difference between them? Or do I just misunderstand the value of horsepower? And once one ups the 30mm carbs to 36mm, shouldn't that further increase my useful power? Having slogged through years of postings, I thought I'd distilled the info pretty well, but your response has me questioning what I thought I had gotten to know. Making these changes, as I understand it, essentially makes a cx100 out of my T. Guzziology compares the cx100 not unfavorably to the LeMans, while the T is not often compared to the the Lemans, yet I believe the performance differences between the three are all in the cylinders, heads, and carbs.
I am obviously not racing the thing or even much of a street demon, just hate being tailgated.
John,can you give me a sense of what rpms we are talking about? I tend to hang around 4000, but when pushing up a decent, or long, grade, I run up to about 6000.
But I am also a bit confused. What accounts for the horsepower difference between an SP1000 engine (of the cx100) and the T. They, the T and the Sp, both have vhb30 carbs, and I believe the same bottom end, yet the info I can gather indicates a 10 to 15 horsepower difference between them? Or do I just misunderstand the value of horsepower? And once one ups the 30mm carbs to 36mm, shouldn't that further increase my useful power? Having slogged through years of postings, I thought I'd distilled the info pretty well, but your response has me questioning what I thought I had gotten to know. Making these changes, as I understand it, essentially makes a cx100 out of my T. Guzziology compares the cx100 not unfavorably to the LeMans, while the T is not often compared to the the Lemans, yet I believe the performance differences between the three are all in the cylinders, heads, and carbs.
I am obviously not racing the thing or even much of a street demon, just hate being tailgated.
Or is it simply that the with the way I ride, I would not actually notice the performance differences of these models?
Andrew, plug in your bore, stroke and carb size into this spreadsheet. https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/resources/carb-sizer.188/ The resulting RPM given is an approximation of your max efficiency RPM. She will run best from 1K RPM below to 1K RPM above the figure derived. What pulls you up the hill is torque. HP gains will deliver a higher top speed. For pulling applications torque is key. That is why diesel engines are used in trucks. They produce much more torque than horsepower. The long stroke of the diesel gives you higher torque figures. Increasing the bore doesn't necessarily increase torque. Useable torque is a function of cam profile and stroke. The big difference between the 850 T and the Mk 1 LeMans is the valve size and carb.
Amboman
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The unmachined 88 mm Gilardonis are drop-in for the CX100, but would require that the "spigots" be turned down for use in the 850-T. MG Cycle sells "big-bore" 88 mm Gilardonis with the spigot already turned down for use in the Eldo, 850-T and T3.
Thanks Guys. We'll see whether I move forward with these swaps. I appreciate the help. I have finally gotten confident with my wrenching skillls, but can see what I need to start learning before I start messing around with performance design. The posts all discuss "improvements to performance" but obviously there are different types of performance needs. The particular performance needs of pulling a loaded sidecar up and down mountains at highway speed is different than blasting through the twisties. So, its back to school I go...