"Dog bone"

[Guzzi Girl]

Apparently there is a "dog bone" :huh: (until recently I thought a dog bone was a treat for my dog) which can be used to lower the Norge. Has anyone used this lowering link? Any thoughts/opinions?

 

[guzzibob]

I have no idea what a "dog bone" is-however, unless the main stand is removed, ground clearance is already an issue. If your problem is lack of inseam (mine is 29"), I strongly suggest you look in to other alternatives first, if you haven't already. I bought the lower seat, which helps a bit, & had the local cobbler raise the heels/soles of my riding boots. Between the two made the bike's height a lot more manageable, & some suspension adjustments/mods detailed elsewhere here took care of the ground clearance issues without forcing centerstand removal and/or raising the already too high (for me) seat height. Course, if you are very light as well as short, and/or ride very moderately, that will help the ground clearance thing too.

 

[Guzzi Girl]

I have the lowered seat, supension set as lower as it can be without compromising handling and have built up my boots about 3/4 ", still have problems when I am trying to move the bike around while on it, feet slip out. Frequently I will ride alone, prefer not to put myself in a situation where I can't move my bike if I am on the slightest of inclines. Clearance is definitiley problem I have encounterd. I am not of heavier build and have drug the centre stand numerous times, that is coming off this year, really wrecks the fun in the twisties. I was told the "dogbone" will not effect clearance since it is basically compressing the spring...so not really lowering the bike, but I would assume the ride would be rougher. Just hoping someone else had tried this option and could give me some feedback.

 

[guzzibob]

OK, you've done all the easy stuff, good for you. I fail to see how the spring can be compressed such that the bike is lowered but ground clearance is not decreased. Be that as it may, you are now planning to remove the centerstand which should pretty well solve that problem, plus perhaps give you some room to work with to lower the suspension by whatever means. I know someone local to me who rides 2 up frequently, & removing the centerstand made a huge difference.

In fact, given that you are scraping the centerstand often, if I were you I'd go ahead & remove the thing ASAP while you work on the height issue. Otherwise, eventually you will scrape hard enough to make bad things happen.

 

[Brian UK]

You have cut the rubber stop on the centre stand down as much as you can haven't you?

 

[Bob Bernstein]

Here is a "dog bone"

http://www.koubalink.com/DL650-1000%20V-strom.html

 

[radguzzi]

Guzzi Girl,
It's not so much that changing the dog bone compresses the spring as much as it is that a different length dog bone will change the triangulation of the shock mount and That is what is actually lowering the Norge....

Now, that said... Is there a longer dog bone available for the Norge...? I have changed e-v-e-r-y one of my trail bikes to "lower" them, I too am a bit short of leg... :dry:

The longer the dog bone, the more the bottom of the shock is placed toward the rear o the m/c hence, "Lowering" the shock....

There are some other considerations if you lower the ass end of a m/c, you may need to lower the front as well... usually the same amount that the rear has been changed. This can be done on many m/c's by running the fork stanchions up trough the top tree but I'm not sure about the Norge, mine is not here right now or I would go look...

There is a bit more to this than simply dropping the seat height. My opinion of the lowering that you need would be to lower the seat more by having a custom lowered unit built, or rebuild the one you have... Again, just my opinion... Handling characteristics change with suspension changes.

Best,
Rob

 

[Guzzi Girl]

Re:

radguzzi wrote:

Guzzi Girl,
It's not so much that changing the dog bone compresses the spring as much as it is that a different length dog bone will change the triangulation of the shock mount and That is what is actually lowering the Norge....

Now, that said... Is there a longer dog bone available for the Norge...? I have changed e-v-e-r-y one of my trail bikes to "lower" them, I too am a bit short of leg... :dry:

The longer the dog bone, the more the bottom of the shock is placed toward the rear o the m/c hence, "Lowering" the shock....

There are some other considerations if you lower the ass end of a m/c, you may need to lower the front as well... usually the same amount that the rear has been changed. This can be done on many m/c's by running the fork stanchions up trough the top tree but I'm not sure about the Norge, mine is not here right now or I would go look...

There is a bit more to this than simply dropping the seat height. My opinion of the lowering that you need would be to lower the seat more by having a custom lowered unit built, or rebuild the one you have... Again, just my opinion... Handling characteristics change with suspension changes.

Best,
Rob

Thanks so much for the explanation of how a dog bone works, the physics of it make sense now. Sounds like much of my decision will ride on whether or not the front can be lowered as well. Do you think the handling of the bike would change dramatically if the front can be lowered as well, or will the handling be about the same if front and back lowered equally?

I love the way the Norge handles and spent the summer "learning" the bike and am very happy with it, don't want to change that. I have the lowered Norge seat on it now, not sure if I can have mods done that will lower it more or not.

I found the below link, is this a type of dog bone or something different?...sorry about all the questions, just don't want to make a bad decision...did I mention how much I love my Norge and am now a die hard Guzzi fan so am trying to make the bike more perfect than it is..forever addicted http://www.westmoreland-moto-guzzi.com/ ... g_kits.htm

 

[max]

I am having a similair problem. I am vertically challenged and an arthritic old goat to boot. Inseam about 30in on a really good day. I can flat foot the Breva 1100 but it's a bit of a stretch to do so. I'm ok at the traffic lights etc. But trying to move around the parking lot while on the bike is a bit of a chore. If I'm on a bit of an incline, it's a real hassle. I see the lower seat is a centameter lower. Not sure what the converstion is in regard to inches. I'm going to give that a shot though. I purchased some motorcycle boots at the recent motorcycle show in Cleveland. They have very sticky soles just made for motorcycling. I'm hoping that the soles will help with moving the bike around without my feet slipping everytime I try to back the Breva up or move it around in the garage. Moto-international makes bar risers and foot peg relocators to allow a more erect sitting position for folks like me that are not very flexible any more. I was told by a Guzzi dealer lately, that when lowering the rear via links, you can't really lower the forks the same amount. it has to do with the angle of the fork tubes. He stated one can really screw up the geometry of the bike and wind up with a bike that doesn't handle well. I have no idea if he is correct on this. I'm not an engineer. Just thought I would relay that to you. Now all i need is an end to the winter weather here in northern ohio to try those sticky soles on my new boots. The boots are inexpensive Tourmaster Solution Boots. At $102 , if they keep me from tipping over at the intersections or parking lot, they are a steal ! Good luck and hope you enjoy your Moto-Guzzi as much as I do mine.

 

[Guzzi Girl]

Re:

max wrote:

I am having a similair problem. I am vertically challenged and an arthritic old goat to boot. Inseam about 30in on a really good day. I can flat foot the Breva 1100 but it's a bit of a stretch to do so. I'm ok at the traffic lights etc. But trying to move around the parking lot while on the bike is a bit of a chore. If I'm on a bit of an incline, it's a real hassle. I see the lower seat is a centameter lower. Not sure what the converstion is in regard to inches. I'm going to give that a shot though. I purchased some motorcycle boots at the recent motorcycle show in Cleveland. They have very sticky soles just made for motorcycling. I'm hoping that the soles will help with moving the bike around without my feet slipping everytime I try to back the Breva up or move it around in the garage. Moto-international makes bar risers and foot peg relocators to allow a more erect sitting position for folks like me that are not very flexible any more. I was told by a Guzzi dealer lately, that when lowering the rear via links, you can't really lower the forks the same amount. it has to do with the angle of the fork tubes. He stated one can really screw up the geometry of the bike and wind up with a bike that doesn't handle well. I have no idea if he is correct on this. I'm not an engineer. Just thought I would relay that to you. Now all i need is an end to the winter weather here in northern ohio to try those sticky soles on my new boots. The boots are inexpensive Tourmaster Solution Boots. At $102 , if they keep me from tipping over at the intersections or parking lot, they are a steal ! Good luck and hope you enjoy your Moto-Guzzi as much as I do mine.

I would be ecstatic if I had a 30" inseam :dry: When I had my riding boots built up, I had a vibram sole put on them which is very sticky, might be the same sole you have on your boot, they work great, they don't slip as easy. You echoed the words I have said numerous times about it being difficult to move the bike around in parking lots and slight inclines, it becomes frustrating.

Thanks for passing on the info regarding not being able to lower the forks and the handling being compromised. The feed back from everyone has been very helpful. I am having custom shims milled to pull back my bars a bit, I find I am reaching, caused shoulder pain. I tried my first season with the bars as they were to see if I just had to get used to them, 15,000 km and a still healing shoulder I decided to do the pull backs.

Know what you are saying about winter, parked the Goose in Sept and can't wait for the snow to melt so I can get out riding again. With any luck we will have an early spring here in Alberta and be riding in April!! Can't wait! You as well, enjoy your Guzzi!!

 

[draidt]

This is from the Norge parts manual, you can see the Dog Bone in question just below the shock. Doesn't look like a difficult job to replace.

 

[radguzzi]

Well Awesome... Help for the vertically challenged...! Where did you dig that up...?

As in the drawing that Dan posted, the Dogbone is one component, the double connecting arm is the one that Westmoreland has... I'm calling them tomorrow...Thanks.

Couple of things to find out about the "Kits"... The arm appears to need the bearings installed, do they come with the "Kit".

They can prolly best answer whether the front should lower as they have done (hopefully) the engineering on this... I find that a lowered m/c will fall in faster in a turn than the excellent handling feel of the stocker so all that you learned may have to start again.

One cannot ask too many questions regard to whether the handling characteristics of a m/c may change either, some people never ask enough...

That is an excellent find, I will pick brains there tomorrow when I call.. I have real world engineering questions about that piece, hope it is well done.
Not to pick at this application already but the cat in the photos have those big-ass boots on too... just sayin'.

Another thought is the center stand. I know you said ours is coming off but mine is not. I wonder both about the dragging on the road and how difficult it is to deploy with the new link..?

I'll let you know what I find out about the Kits...

Thanks very much, good find.
Rob

These guys can't be too bad, Guzzis and Triumph...!

 

[Greg Field]

If you buy one, make sure the guy is a qualified engineer and has liability insurance . . .

It may look like a "dog bone," but your safety rides on it. And that's, as we say in the US, a "no-shitter."

Hell, I'll put a new blade in the sawzall and carve one. Who's in?

 

[radguzzi]

Re:

Greg Field wrote:

If you buy one, make sure the guy is a qualified engineer and has liability insurance . . .

It may look like a "dog bone," but your safety rides on it. And that's, as we say in the US, a "no-shitter."

Hell, I'll put a new blade in the sawzall and carve one. Who's in?

Greg,
I do Reliability & Maintainability Failure Analysis studies on equipment, This is exactly why I want to talk to this fellow... That is an extremely vital component that I would not want to be thinking about every friggin' mile.... !

Conversely, I have bought "lowering links" for the Honda XR's made by reputable manufactures (Devol, Answer etc..) that are little less complicated in design and seemingly benign that I did not question, just bought them and installed them.... :dry:

Keep you posted.

Rob

 

[Guzzi Girl]

Re:

Thanks for looking into this Radguzzi, much appreciated. Look forward to hearing what they have to say.

 

[draidt]

Re:

radguzzi wrote:

Well Awesome... Help for the vertically challenged...! Where did you dig that up...?

Dosen't everyone have a set of these ? :laugh:

 

[radguzzi]

Re:

Guzzi Girl wrote:

Thanks for looking into this Radguzzi, much appreciated. Look forward to hearing what they have to say.

My pleasure...

How Cow...hmy:

The Westmoreland unit drops the ass end of a Norge (for example) 2"... that is TWO inches....! Made of T-6 alum, the "Kit" is just as I expected, a bare pivot block that you put your own stock bearings into... Not a big ta-do although I have had to press them out of and back into Honda lowering links, I would not advocate just driving them with a brass drift... My opinion.

#1 - This 2" drop will cause some two- up issues and necessitate cranking up the pre-load on the shock. Clearance under the rear fender is not an issue if ridden only solo... That allow leaves me out of it. I ride mostly solo however, we do use this as the primary two-up rig as well... with bags and top case...!

#2 - The center stand can stay although it will take two men and a boy to heft the m/c up onto the stand due to being 2" lower... Now, that said, if it works for you then you can simply shorten the center stand to suit... Again, not me ... yet.

I did offer Scott ( the guy in the photos on the website...) to call me when he makes a version that only drops the Norge by 1" and maybe that would work for my application.

We briefly discussed the engineering effort that went into the unit but I did not get a real good felling about how the unit was created, who had done the design. A local machine shop fabled them for them. He went on to say that their unit Looks better than the Guzzi item, well that does not tell me that the engineering principles that went into the make up of and material integrity are better, they just look cool.... I would like to believe in this thing but I need more proof... One more time... MY OPINION....

There are about ten of these in service according to Scott at Westmoreland.

Might be worth a ride down to PA to try out a Norge with this installed and develop an opinion from that. I cannot do without two-up capability.

All right, more as I know it...


Best,
Rob

 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Re:

Greg Field wrote:

If you buy one, make sure the guy is a qualified engineer and has liability insurance . . .

It may look like a "dog bone," but your safety rides on it. And that's, as we say in the US, a "no-shitter."

Hell, I'll put a new blade in the sawzall and carve one. Who's in?

I have a cnc milling machine, and used to make simple bar risers for the Ducati ST2/4. My insurance people said, "You're messing with the steering on a motorcycle???? Don't do that. " As if it bar risers would make any difference..
That said, there's no rocket science involved with making something like a dogbone.

 

[Guzzi Girl]

Re:

hmy: 2"!! Holy I didn't expect it to lower that much!! Did he mention anything about having to lower the forks as well?

Thanks for looking into this Radguzzi.

 

[radguzzi]

Re:

Guzzi Girl wrote:

hmy: 2"!! Holy I didn't expect it to lower that much!! Did he mention anything about having to lower the forks as well?

Thanks for looking into this Radguzzi.

No problem... I had a nice chat with Scott and he did not mention drop the front, course I ddn't ask either... :silly:

I am going to try the lower seat first, no sense in going too extreme... yet.

Best,
Rob