ECU 62 error

[coldcanuck]

Hi all,

My Stelvio is spitting out an ECU 62 error (Error stepper C.C. Ground) and my local dealer mechanic (a 22-yr old) didn't know what to do to debug or rectify it and we're on day 9 waiting for the Piaggio tech rep to return his call.

The error code reappears whenever I reset the error via the dashboard computer, so it appears legitimate. The bike has a nasty high frequency vibration that seems abnormal, but I'm not sure the two are related.

Does anyone have any ideas?

coldcanuck

 

[GTM®]

Sounds like if they don't want to talk to him about it, he should just order & replace the Stepper Motor. Most vibration issues are typically related to fueling/tuning/throttle body balancing, and the fact that the intake and exhaust are horrifically plugged up due to stringent Euro3 regs. All of the products I offer here aid this immensely, and outside of the cam profile, rid the bike nearly of all frustrations in that sense.

 

[Penis Rotor]

One of the most tedious things is that we, the blokes who work on these bikes, are given so little in the way of information. All the manuals tend to say is "If there is a problem? Replace the part" There is little talk of symptoms or how to ensure the diagnosis is correct.

That being the case? If it says there is an issue with the stepper? Slap a warranty claim in on it and have it replaced. If that doesn't work? THEN you start investigating further.

Pete

 

[RJVB]

From the error message, seems there's a connectivity issue which could of course have been caused by the vibrations.
I concur with Pete: if the bike is under warranty, just replace the part instead of starting to tinker with the bike trying to find what's wrong. You'll know it wasn't just a faulty part if replacing it doesn't help or the error returns.

 

[coldcanuck]

From the error message, seems there's a connectivity issue which could of course have been caused by the vibrations.

That was my initial thought when I reviewed the error messages and saw the following:

Error stepper C.A. ECU 60
Error stepper C.C. Vcc ECU 61
Error stepper C.C. Ground ECU 62

I'm not sure what the "C.A." or "C.C." refers to, but the "Vcc" and "Gound" definitely suggest something relating to the power. The bike starts fine when cold and there is no hint of a abnormally rough idle, so that leads me to believe the stepper motor is in fine working order (although I'd be the first to admit that I can't quantify the contribution of the stepper motor to improving these two issues).

Sounds like if they don't want to talk to him about it, he should just order & replace the Stepper Motor.

That was going to be my suggestion (or request) to him when I call Tuesday. On Friday the service manager mentioned that the tech support guy contacted him to say he was on "special assignment" all week so I'll give them until Tuesday. Otherwise a warranty claim will probably have them engage in a dialogue.

This has kinda got me thinking - I was told by the service manager that the throttle bodies were balanced during my service visit two weeks ago. I have not noticed any difference in the vibration due to the TB sync like I was expecting, so now I'm doubting if the TBs were ever balanced. Wouldn't you want to rectify any motor errors on the bike prior to doing a TB sync? I'm not sure what impact a malfunctioning stepper motor would have on throwing a TB out of sync, but I would think it would be "best practice" to make sure the engine is running in as normal a condition as possible before doing the TB balance.

What really concerns me is that when I asked the service manager if he knew what was the role of the stepper motor, he did not know. I think his 20-yr old mechanic might not know as well given they probably sell 3-5 Guzzis a year at most.

coldcanuck

 

[RJVB]

A stepper motor is an electromotor that is under digital command. It seems likely that it has 2 electrical connections: one the power (would be the C.A.), one the command (C.C., one C standing for command or control).

What's interesting is that the circuitry (or ECU) is apparently advanced enough to distinguish between connectivity problems in the 2 command wires (hot and ground). But that doesn't really help you, the component ought to work — period.

I'd think most (big) bikes have a stepper motor to manipulate air intake (bypass) during idle...!

 

[kmartin]

As its name implies, a stepper motor steps one position at a time with electical pulses. One can expect 2 command lines, clockwise and counter clockwise (anti clockwise) and 1or 2 common wires. I suspect the errors are

Error stepper C.A. ECU 60 - anti clockwise signal
Error stepper C.C. Vcc ECU 61 - clockwise signal
Error stepper C.C. Ground ECU 62 - common

 

[coldcanuck]

I called the dealer today and found out that yesterday the Piaggio US tech team sent an e-mail to the mechanic and told then they had never seen an ECU 62 error and no one around there had ever hear of one. They suggested it may be a lose wire and the dealer suggested I check all the wiring to make sure there is no lose connection or bent pins, etc. I'm surprised the dealer didn't beg me to bring it in as he can really ring up many warranty hours casing down an electrical problem.

Anyways, I started taking apart on bike and realized that all the wiring of important was under the tank which is a little more effort than I wanted to exert at 8 pm at night in my driveway, so I think I'll drop it off at the dealer tomorrow since he has to look at the vibration problem anyways.

I had never heard of a stepper motor until I got my Guzzi, so I Googled the terms to find out what a stepper motor was. It seems a stepper motor is used to play Super Mario theme songs, so I'm not entirely sure how this helps make the Guzzi engines run better :

[youtube]zlfsBlcH4ao[/youtube]

[youtube]Kh2AWswAMvw[/youtube]

 

[coldcanuck]

Latest update.

Nobody at the Piaggio US tech support has seen this error before and can only suggest we (meaning I) check all the wiring for lose connections. However, the local Guzzi dealer clearly does not want anything to do with this problem. Firstly, they're unsure if Piaggio will cover it under warranty because the bike is an American import into Canada, and even if they do, he doubts Piaggio would cover the "approximately 2 hours" of diagnostic time it would take to diagnose the error code. I think his prime reason is that I bought my new '09 Stelvio in the US for under $11k instead of picking up the new but rapidly depreciating '08 model on his showroom floor for $18k (which was way out of my price range).

Firstly, it was confirmed to me before I bought the bike that Piaggio US will honor the warranty in Canada. I can't comment on whether Piaggio will cover "diagnostic time", but my response to that is to put in a warranty request to replace the two stepper motors and the ECU, which will undoubtedly make two hours of diagnostic time more palatable to Piaggio.

Anyways, it appears to me I'm on my own in debugging this issue. I had the mechanic point me to the stepper motor and I've printed off the wiring diagrams from this forum. My gut tells me to dump the bike and the brand and move to a less-invigorating but better-supported R1200GS, but my heart tells me to persevere to stick with the loyal Guzzi crowd.

Cory

 

[GTM®]

Enough with the finger-pointing, have them warranty the stepper motor, and worry about the rest once that is installed. Report back.

If you think BM-trouble-U's :huh: -- are problem-free, try a Google search. Nothing is trouble-free.

Super Mario Brothers... this makes a lot of sense. Brilliant, you see;

[youtube]MytfhzcSF-Y[/youtube]

 

[Forseti]

If your expecting better support from the barvarian brand... good luck. My buddy rides a GSA and has been fighting with the dealers to get stuff fixed at least as much as any one riding a Guzzi.

 

[coldcanuck]

Re: ECU 62 error - Solved!!!

So tonight I got home from work early and decided tonight was the night I was going to rid my Stelvio of the demons that lurked within. So I gathered my tools:

Summoned (sucked back) my courage:

And slayed the demons!

What an improvement. First of all, all the poor performance that everyone bellyaches about their Guzzi's possessing below 4k rpm off the showroom floor is gone. No more hiccuping, stuttering, lunging or backfiring. Completely different. The bike is now a complete pleasure to troll the city streets with. Amazing difference. I think I've hit that point that Pete refers to when he says you are able to set up a modern Guzzi to run perfectly acceptable without Todd's fuel management solutions. I'm sure most riders would be satisfied with my bike the way it is running now if they did not know Todd's solutions existed to provide additional improvements. I'm sure the stock map is still not optimal, but you no longer have your attention grabbed by the bike's poor performance whenever you drop below 4k rpm. You can now look around and enjoy the flowers, so to speak.

Secondly, the ECU#62 error that has dogged me for the past 5,500 kms is gone. I pulled out of my driveway and was admiring the immediate difference to the low speed performance I was experiencing when I looked down and noticed the tripmeter for the first time in over two months! I went through an initial phase of shock before the elation hit me. The SERVICE message that I've grown to tolerate and ignore was nowhere to be seen and the red warning light was no longer illuminated (although in all honesty it may have finally burnt out after being on for 5,500 kms).

"What the...?"

"Where the...?"

"How the...?"

I have no idea what happened to clear the service code that was like a bad venereal disease, but one of only two things could have solved the SERVICE code problem. Firstly, maybe the recirculation system was sending a malfunction signal to the ECU. Given both the recirculation system and stepper motor both feed air into the throttle bodies, perhaps the two were interacting somehow to create the ECU#62 error condition.

The second posibility is more remote. I had to disconnect and remove the dash to get to and remove the charcoal cannister. The loss of power created a reset condition for the dash. I had previously cleared the ECU#62 error many times only to have it reappear, but I had never reset the dash.

It was getting dark outside so I never bothered synchronizing the throttle bodies. I just threw all the Tupperware and parts back on and took'er for a rip. It doesn't appear as though the TBs need a balance but I will do that when I get some time a little later on.

Nonetheless I am a happy camper tonight. This should be a message to all out there that are frustrated with their Guzzis - stick it out. Read all the forum posts and learn from oters who have more than likely suffered the same problems long before you ever have and already come to a solution! And start by ripping out all that shitty recirculation plumbing!!!

Cory

 

[fatal]

Congratulations on sorting it. Would I be correct to assume that UK models do not have this recirculating air system and charcoal canister apparatus?

 

[RJVB]

Yep. That's something that is supposed to equip vehicles only in California.

(For the moment - let's see what they invent for us to comply with Euro4 and Euro5, foreseen for way [too] quickly!)

 

[kmartin]

Re: ECU 62 error - Solved!!!

So tonight I got home from work early and decided tonight was the night I was going to rid my Stelvio of the demons that lurked within. So I gathered my tools:

Cory

You're risking the "Rath of Roper" with that picture. I'm really happy you're getting it sorted out, congratulations.

 

[GTM®]

Yep. That's something that is supposed to equip vehicles only in California.

Not just for California any more... inch: - this evap emissions system comes on every bike in the States (and likely Canada). I'd be curious to hear if there are any if Europe (or elsewhere) without it. The cannister shown above on the ground, resides under the speedo assembly and behind the headlights on the Stelvio.

 

[Forseti]

Yep.. the Canuck bikes have 'em as well. :evil:

 

[DanPez]

Re: ECU 62 error - Solved!!!

And slayed the demons!

Cory

Congratulations Cory on finding the problem.

It's my imagination? ........I can still see it twitching. hmy:

 

[coldcanuck]

Re: ECU 62 error - Solved!!!

You're risking the "Rath of Roper" with that picture. I'm really happy you're getting it sorted out, congratulations.

Yeah, I thought I'd give him a little poke to get him going! I shoulda replace the crescent wrench with a pipe wrench! The only tool I used in that pic was the 4mm allen key - surprisingly you can almost strip the entire bike to its frame with that tool.

I was quite amazed at the amount of hosing involved. My initial objective for the evening was to just remove the check valve and to disconnect the charcoal filter feedback into the TBs by disconnecting and capping the feedback hose going into the T-connector as GT-Rx suggested in another post. Once I started tracing the hoses I decided to rip them all out because it was such a God-awful tangled mess. And when I disconnected the hoses from the canister (actually, I inadvertently snapped off the plastic spigots), it was just wobbling in its support because the tie-wrapped hoses added stability to hold (balance) it in place. So the canister was removed.

I may have actually ripped out one too many hoses. I have to confirm the tank vent hose is connected. I have a skinny one on the left of the tank that goes to atmosphere, but the line coming from the right-hand side of the canister also vents to atmosphere (which it does - in the picture you can see it hang down the front-right corner of the engine). According to a diagram I found this morning of a Breva evap emission system, this line should T into the fuel tank. The problem is that that supposed 'T' would be located under the tank Tupperware. One of these days I have to remove all the plastic and get a good look at the tank. I have the same paint problems around the fuel cap as many others on the forum so it'll get removed at some point.

Anyways, on to the next problem - shuddering front brakes. Let's see...where was that post...

Cory

 

[kwn306]

Cory,

Don't be surprised if your brakes start working properly now, that damn check valve and charcoal canister effects a whole lot of stuff