Thanks for the intel. As stated in 2003, Piaggio/Aprilia will likely never allow a "Sport" Guzzi... Best I'd imagine they'd do is a naked (and even then not likely). I'll be one of the old guys still enjoying ICE engines in 2030, though I can appreciate EVs once they get the battery tech figured out. I've test ridden some high $ and fast EV motos in the past. They were fun, just had minimal range when ridden how I wanted.
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EV Chatter
- Thread starter GTM®
- Start date
Unless they bust out some of the Alien technologies they have locked up in Area 51 ! 
we’re still a long , long way from a motorcycle sized package that will give you 200 miles ( 320km ) of range for little day trippers like me, let alone anyone what anyone that does any significant riding would be looking for… without adding hours to your riding day with charging stops !
we’re still a long , long way from a motorcycle sized package that will give you 200 miles ( 320km ) of range for little day trippers like me, let alone anyone what anyone that does any significant riding would be looking for… without adding hours to your riding day with charging stops !
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I have been working with electric motorcycles the last couple of years, and your assessment is spot on. I spoke with Energica at length last week and they say their performance chokepoint is battery related. When I speak to non technical folks describing electric motorcycles I say this: They start with moderately good torque and then drop off from there with an extremely limited range. The main problem with most is the Very LONG charge time for not-top-of-the-line models. 8 hours to 80% with the onboard charger? Get the hell outta here with that ish.
I will NEVER buy an electric motorcycle. I don't care if it could go 500 miles on a 30 minute charge.
It has all of the appeal of having sex while wrapped up in a biohazard suit. Gee...fun. Not.
Companies come and go with that crap and the overwhelming majority of riders hate that stuff. This is why none of those companies ever last a long time. They are all flash in the pan and the prices they charge, versus what that crap sells for used, is abysmal.
Electric vehicles SUCK. Period. That's how I feel about them.
It has all of the appeal of having sex while wrapped up in a biohazard suit. Gee...fun. Not.
Companies come and go with that crap and the overwhelming majority of riders hate that stuff. This is why none of those companies ever last a long time. They are all flash in the pan and the prices they charge, versus what that crap sells for used, is abysmal.
Electric vehicles SUCK. Period. That's how I feel about them.
( I Am Joking)
BUT, But, but Scott… what about the little Children !
Dont you want them to have trees to burn in the bonfires to roast marshmallows !
( not really electric vehicle related, but I thought saving trees to Burn later would be Funny )
Do you have any battery operated stuff, Drills, flashlights, portable phones, computers ?
Electricity is the way of the future , someday it will be lighting and heating our homes !
Its Required for *Nearly* everything we use today… Spark plugs , gas pumps, signal lights.
do electric vehicles have the ability to go fast ? Yes
are they as much Fun as Loud Manual transmission machines ? IMHO - no
maybe look at it as a nessary evil we can trade against to save a little here and spend it there…
You Can’t drive a Gas powered mobility scooter in the House !
[ for too long ]
PS: Todd feel free to delete or move as you see fit
BUT, But, but Scott… what about the little Children !
Dont you want them to have trees to burn in the bonfires to roast marshmallows !
( not really electric vehicle related, but I thought saving trees to Burn later would be Funny )
Do you have any battery operated stuff, Drills, flashlights, portable phones, computers ?
Electricity is the way of the future , someday it will be lighting and heating our homes !
Its Required for *Nearly* everything we use today… Spark plugs , gas pumps, signal lights.
do electric vehicles have the ability to go fast ? Yes
are they as much Fun as Loud Manual transmission machines ? IMHO - no
maybe look at it as a nessary evil we can trade against to save a little here and spend it there…
You Can’t drive a Gas powered mobility scooter in the House !
[ for too long ]
PS: Todd feel free to delete or move as you see fit
Well... Kind of, see damon.com
TOP SPEED: 200 MPH
CLAIMED RANGE: 200 Miles Highway/300 City
2023 are sold out. They even change rider position on the fly from commuter/touring to sport. 200HP too.Well... Kind of, see damon.com
TOP SPEED: 200 MPH
CLAIMED RANGE: 200 Miles Highway/300 City
I believe them when I see real world evaluations of their bikes.
Fleuger99
Tuned and Synch'ed
The North American and EU view is all electric but I like where Asia is going and its not electric, they are focusing on hydrogen cell vehicles. To me that is something I'd adopt over electric. Hydrogen cars typically have a 300 mile range and only take 5 - 8 minutes to refuel, much like an ICE vehicles does today. Japan, Korea and China (as well as countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan etc.) are targeting to have several million hydrogen vehicles on their roads by the end of the next decade. Both Honda and Toyota have hydrogen vehicles for sale/lease only in California because they have the hydrogen filling stations to support the vehicles.( I Am Joking)
BUT, But, but Scott… what about the little Children !
Dont you want them to have trees to burn in the bonfires to roast marshmallows !
( not really electric vehicle related, but I thought saving trees to Burn later would be Funny )
Do you have any battery operated stuff, Drills, flashlights, portable phones, computers ?
Electricity is the way of the future , someday it will be lighting and heating our homes !
Its Required for *Nearly* everything we use today… Spark plugs , gas pumps, signal lights.
do electric vehicles have the ability to go fast ? Yes
are they as much Fun as Loud Manual transmission machines ? IMHO - no
maybe look at it as a nessary evil we can trade against to save a little here and spend it there…
You Can’t drive a Gas powered mobility scooter in the House !
[ for too long ]
PS: Todd feel free to delete or move as you see fit
What has electric phones, flashlights and computers have to do with adoption of electric cars? LOL.
Electricity is the Future , soon it will be in Use Everywhere !!!
First the Light bulb, then Space travel
The only problem with combustion engines is the stubbornness and arrogance of people who think they need a 3, 4, 5, and even 6 liter engine to propel 1 stupid person around in their shiny metal box.
They can build a car with a 1 liter engine, that is capable of sustained cruising at 70 mph and obtaining 50+ mpg however nobody is willing to be frugal and reasonable. It’s never about what you need, it’s all about what “I want…”.
Moving the pollution from the tailpipe to the cooling stack at a power plant is the greatest act of hokus pokus out there today. My neighbor still thinks his Tesla car is “pollution free”. He’s just plain dense as lead.
They can build a car with a 1 liter engine, that is capable of sustained cruising at 70 mph and obtaining 50+ mpg however nobody is willing to be frugal and reasonable. It’s never about what you need, it’s all about what “I want…”.
Moving the pollution from the tailpipe to the cooling stack at a power plant is the greatest act of hokus pokus out there today. My neighbor still thinks his Tesla car is “pollution free”. He’s just plain dense as lead.
Doesn’t a similar thing happen on two wheels? Who needs anything more a 250 if you follow a similar argument
BUT I do agree with your 3rd paragraph. Not to mention the amount of crap dug out of ground even to make one battery.
Ya, lets just keep on doing what we're doing. It seems to be working out well.
Ralph Glorioso
Tuned and Synch'ed
I submit that battery tech is not the choke point, but that "clean" production of electricity in a sustainable manner is the real, long-term concern. Windmills, tides, solar, all have distinct limits on sustained availability. Nuclear is a clear answer to sustainability but it has other socio-political hurdles which may never be surmounted. Right now, California has brownouts, Europe is going to freeze in the dark and still there is a mad rush to electrify everything. Then, there is the problem of adequate supplies of lithium and other rare-earth substances to make more and more batteries (and dispose of them?).
Not any time soon
Ralph
Not any time soon
Ralph
= Riding MotorcyclesYa, lets just keep on doing what we're doing. It seems to be working out well.
I was a geologist - all this Warming / Cooling stuff is old hat.
Are we making things worse - Yes
Would it ( warming/cooling) have happened anyway - Yes
Can we stop it - not likely.
I really don’t think we’re smart enough to control the planets evolution.
Anytime we’ve tried to Fix something in nature, we introduce an imbalance that causes other issues.
We’re the only species that can “move” someplace and Totaly @#$& §£ our §|{> !
Would 10,000 cows all graze in the same place completely decimating the vegetation, no we did that cause it’s easier to manage, them when there in one place.
examples of our applied Higher Intelligence are Everywhere…
You cannot get something for nothing.
Every form of power generation, has negative aspects to it. Every form.
I would not have a problem with small displacement engines for cars and motorcycles. Not at all.
Although some would think otherwise, I am very pro-alternative energy sources. I am a huge proponent of wind power generation, however even that form of power generation, cuts both ways.
The critical concept is understanding completely, that you cannot get something for nothing. It isn’t possible. There is always a trade-off. Always.
The point that just constantly annoys me to no end, is this very false idea that EV vehicles don’t pollute.
Of course they do!
They just transfer the pollution to the electricity generation facility instead of a tailpipe. It’s truly “smoke and mirrors”.
It also creates the most insane centralization of energy for vehicles. Think for a moment if the power grid goes down in the area you live. You have no way to get power for your EV! In the event of war or conflict, you can decimate transportation by simply blowing up a single electric substation in a given area. Boom and nothing is moving around anymore. With liquid fuel, it is transportable. You cannot transport electricity in a jerry can. Point to ponder…
Also, every EV has hundreds of pounds of the most toxic batteries every constructed. I bet that they don’t recycle 100% of them when their service life is over. I’m convinced of this.
Every form of power generation, has negative aspects to it. Every form.
I would not have a problem with small displacement engines for cars and motorcycles. Not at all.
Although some would think otherwise, I am very pro-alternative energy sources. I am a huge proponent of wind power generation, however even that form of power generation, cuts both ways.
The critical concept is understanding completely, that you cannot get something for nothing. It isn’t possible. There is always a trade-off. Always.
The point that just constantly annoys me to no end, is this very false idea that EV vehicles don’t pollute.
Of course they do!
They just transfer the pollution to the electricity generation facility instead of a tailpipe. It’s truly “smoke and mirrors”.
It also creates the most insane centralization of energy for vehicles. Think for a moment if the power grid goes down in the area you live. You have no way to get power for your EV! In the event of war or conflict, you can decimate transportation by simply blowing up a single electric substation in a given area. Boom and nothing is moving around anymore. With liquid fuel, it is transportable. You cannot transport electricity in a jerry can. Point to ponder…
Also, every EV has hundreds of pounds of the most toxic batteries every constructed. I bet that they don’t recycle 100% of them when their service life is over. I’m convinced of this.
my view - since we're all sharing - is that the car itself is the problem, not what powers it.
the energy and resources required to make a sophisticated and complex machine for every single person in the country, used for generally pretty banal tasks is incredible, exceeded only by the impacts of the infrastructure to make them work.
this:
and this:
are not sustainable, or wise uses of our precious resources. there are entire towns in Europe that fit into that lower picture, with tens of thousands of people living in them.
for me, I want trains, buses and bicycles for regular commuting, the motorbikes and cars can be for fun - and then they actually would be, because people who really don't have any interest in actually *driving* wouldn't have to. are these people roaring past me every day in their nondescript, overpriced, heavily financed, four ton SUVs getting 14mpg actually happy? they sure don't look or act like it.
altho I suppose motorbikes for commuting are much better than cars in this regard. we can make the buses and trains electric or hydrogen actually I vote hydrogen, there's a lovely company local to me and I'd like to work for them
- is that the car itself is the problem, not what powers it.the energy and resources required to make a sophisticated and complex machine for every single person in the country, used for generally pretty banal tasks is incredible, exceeded only by the impacts of the infrastructure to make them work.
this:
and this:
are not sustainable, or wise uses of our precious resources. there are entire towns in Europe that fit into that lower picture, with tens of thousands of people living in them.
for me, I want trains, buses and bicycles for regular commuting, the motorbikes and cars can be for fun - and then they actually would be, because people who really don't have any interest in actually *driving* wouldn't have to. are these people roaring past me every day in their nondescript, overpriced, heavily financed, four ton SUVs getting 14mpg actually happy? they sure don't look or act like it.
altho I suppose motorbikes for commuting are much better than cars in this regard. we can make the buses and trains electric or hydrogen
actually I vote hydrogen, there's a lovely company local to me and I'd like to work for them
Isn’t it remarkable how varied everyone is on this topic?
This is why I just don’t see EV as the great future that some think it is.
No consensus or agreement.
This is why I just don’t see EV as the great future that some think it is.
No consensus or agreement.
We just picked up a used Electric Fiat 500 from California this October ( I’m in Eastern Canada ) as a science experiment.
To see Whats it like to live with , before there are so many you can’t get a spot to charge it if you wanted / needed to…
its a local use vehicle 50km / 30 mile radius of operation. ( 60 Mile /100Km Round trip - before I start Freaking out )
Think of it as leaving home With a bit more than a gallon of gas - and no wallet -Period
I keep thinking that when it’s dead - that’s it - it’s over !
Everycar has different types and configurations of batteries, that make nearly impossible to Fix a battery issue.
Ours is packaged in a 600lbs lump under the car that could be removed and disassembled.
it’s not crazy complicated but it’s not Simple.( there is a guy on YouTube that disassembled a whole car in his garage)
If like in one Tesla “commercial “ you could easily drive up and replace the pack it might be reasonable as an option IF they were all like that and used interchangeable components , but they don’t , not even from year to year for the same model.
The Nissan Leaf has had 6 different battery packs in its life time …
Where when you have an ICE ( internal combustion engine ) vehicle you can Almost always do something…
the Deadly Toxic battery creation and recycling is one aspect of it - but what about the rest of the car ?
Maybe find one with a running ICE and Make Mine back into a REAL Car !
To see Whats it like to live with , before there are so many you can’t get a spot to charge it if you wanted / needed to…
its a local use vehicle 50km / 30 mile radius of operation. ( 60 Mile /100Km Round trip - before I start Freaking out )
Think of it as leaving home With a bit more than a gallon of gas - and no wallet -Period
I keep thinking that when it’s dead - that’s it - it’s over !
Everycar has different types and configurations of batteries, that make nearly impossible to Fix a battery issue.
Ours is packaged in a 600lbs lump under the car that could be removed and disassembled.
it’s not crazy complicated but it’s not Simple.( there is a guy on YouTube that disassembled a whole car in his garage)
If like in one Tesla “commercial “ you could easily drive up and replace the pack it might be reasonable as an option IF they were all like that and used interchangeable components , but they don’t , not even from year to year for the same model.
The Nissan Leaf has had 6 different battery packs in its life time …
Where when you have an ICE ( internal combustion engine ) vehicle you can Almost always do something…
the Deadly Toxic battery creation and recycling is one aspect of it - but what about the rest of the car ?
Maybe find one with a running ICE and Make Mine back into a REAL Car !
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