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First V85TT Issue in the World?

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Faisal, Aug 5, 2019.

  1. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    So a couple of days ago, my V85TT overheated on me while I was driving. Once the overheat warning light popped up, I had thankfully reached my destination and immediately turned it off.

    An hour later the bike had cooled down and I started her up. At first it started up like a tractor and it was shaking all around and felt like it was running on one cylinder. I switched her off, took a quick gander around the bike, no leaks or anything out of the ordinary, so I started her up again and she started up fine. So I thought it was possibly just the ECU taking safety precautions when it overheated and lowered the timing and fueling or something like that which caused the bike to start up very vigorously.

    I rode her back home with absolutely no hickups and managed to hit around 195 km/h on the way back (125ish mph). Smooth as butter.

    Lo'and behold, just a few hours ago, today, I decided it was time to see how the V85TT feels like with a pillion.

    I adjusted the suspension for a pillion and started the bike up with no issues.

    I rode about 10 miles with my pillion and all was fine and we were enjoying the ride. I wanted to see how it would pull with a pillion, so I gave it the full beans. I was in 4th gear around 6500 RPM when I felt the bike lose all its power and noticed the CEL coming on.

    I quickly parked on the side, shut her off, and took a gander around the bike. No leaks, no nothing.

    I tried to start her up the first time but she wouldn't start, the engine would just turn over. Second time around and she started up but was idling like absolute trash. I could barely get her off the line without the bike trying to die on me, so more clutch throttle action was needed to get her going at first.

    Luckily, the service station was 2 km away, so I drove her gently there and sent the service manager a text message and went back home with an Uber.

    The bike has approximately 3,000 kilometers on it and first service was done at 1,500 kilometers.

    Obviously at this point in time I do not know what is wrong with the bike but I will post an update soon enough!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
  2. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    Wow, what did the oil look like?
     
  3. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I had my pillion hold the bike straight and I looked through the oil glass and it was at the halfway mark, so it didn't drink up any oil.

    I'm thinking possibly a sensor got bust or something, I don't know... Whatever it is, I feel it is related to the overheat I encountered.
     
  4. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    Hope it's not a major problem on a new design.
     
  5. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    It’s a pretty “smart” ECU, so my bet is some type of protective “limp home” mode as you suspect... but do keep us posted.
    Note to self: Another reason to fix the fueling.
     
    Mayakovski likes this.
  6. roadscum

    roadscum Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Sorry to hear that. It could have been worse, good to know you and the pillion got home safe and sound. I hope it turms out to be nothing more then a minor inconvience for you. Waiting to hear more from you on this.

    I suspect M. G. is very interested to their hot little Italian hands on your bike.

    Paul
     
    Faisal likes this.
  7. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Thank you for your concern.

    As long as it's under warranty, I'm absolutely happy.

    I'm just surprised that it overheated on me. I was riding in 43 C (110 F) weather in the afternoon, but I've ridden my V7 in 50+ C (122+ F) before without any overheating issues. I know it's an 850cc motor vs 750cc, but I feel like it wouldn't make much of a difference.

    I presume Todd's tuning on my V7 probably made it run a bit cooler than stock which is why I never had any overheating issues with it.

    The thing that bugs me is that between the overheating scene and the CEL coming on is around 48 hours. Whether both events are related or not, only time will tell.

    I'm happy to be the guinea pig for the Moto Guzzi V85TT community though!
     
    Mayakovski likes this.
  8. tonUPRacer

    tonUPRacer Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    My God, I rarely ride when it's above 90F. I can't imagine 110, but it's a dry heat; just like an oven...
     
  9. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    So here's an update.

    The dealer called me up today and said that the lambda sensors and some other sensors (I can't remember what sensors they mentioned but i'll find out later) were loose / damaged.

    The dealer spoke to Piaggio and Piaggio apparently told them that SOMEONE, has tampered with the bike and the fix will not be covered by warranty.

    I basically told the dealer to tell Piaggio to go to hell because I ain't paying jack.

    They also said there was a new ECU update for the bike. Or he might've said a new software for the dash, I can't remember since this conversation happened while I was basically half asleep.

    I'll be picking up the bike in a few hours and bashing it around.
     
  10. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Ah, the finger-pointing blame game. Was "Piaggio" in this case the Qatar importer or Piaggio Italy?
    Hope all is sorted. Let us know on the ECU/dash update(s) when you know more.
     
  11. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Piaggio as in the mother company Piaggio. Since Qatar is a small country, our importer is also the distributor and the dealer.

    So this is what I was told:

    1- The ECU was not getting any signal from the lambda sensor.

    2- SOMEONE tampered with the lambda sensor connections. (They're hinting it's me.)

    3- The injector plugs were loose and not in full contact. They blamed me for that as well.

    So all in all, they were very minor issues, thankfully.

    The software update they say is a general software update, nothing specific.


    But this brings me to a question, did the overheating cause all of this or is it the other way around?
     
  12. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    Sounds like no one did a dealer prep. Things come half-ass sometimes from factory and the dealer is to go through the bikes.
     
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  13. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Possibly, but I've purchased around 8 bikes from this dealership since they are the dealers to KTM, Ducati, Piaggio, BMW, and Triumph, and I have never had any issues with any of my bikes due to PDI; however, mistakes happen.

    I'm just glad everything got sorted out and I didn't pay anything out of pocket.

    I just got the bike back and rode it for 10~ miles. Everything is as good as new, for now, and hopefully forever.
     
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  14. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT Contributor

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    I've seen stuff in the loom loose from factory on new bikes. They are in a hurry. They must have covered their time if it cost nothing, knowing you didn't jack w/it. I would give them some money, like to get the update. Shouldn't take more than the minimum charge for hourly rate.
    As far as what caused it? Initial use, you don't know till it happens. Specially if it came that way w/loose connectors. The newer shop manuals have a in depth section about the wiring loom. With all the electronics it's nice to see where the connectors go. Get used to it, lots of pins to get cruddy.
     
  15. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Ok here's an update for you guys.

    I went on a small "adventure" off-road with my brother on his KTM 1290 Super Adventure S. The terrain was mostly rocky, salty/ slightly muddy, and very deep soft sand. We were heading to a beach.

    I'm not the most off-road savy guy, but I can pull my weight a bit. My brother on the other hand is an off-road nut.

    I fell 3 times with the V85TT on the soft sand. I had probably 10-15 kg of luggage tied to the back of my V85, and I'm 70 kg AND I adjusted the preload so the rear suspension wasn't as soft, so it wasn't a weight issue I'm pretty sure.

    So the 3rd time I fell, I was exhausted from picking up the bike the previous 2 times as well as the whole off-road experience, so my brother picked up the bike and set off to park the bike on harder terrain. He immediately commented on the clutch being somewhat useless for off-roading, at least for the off-roading we were doing, and of course he mentioned how it was down on power, but we all know that.

    When we were done with our beach day, we headed back to my brother's house, which was around 100-120 km from where we were. Other than the off-road terrain leading to the main road, the entire trip was a 1 way non-stop journey, ranging from 130 - 160 km/h (100 mph max).

    The ambient temperature was between 32 - 35 C at night, so it was cool and comfortable. The RPM at the speeds we were running ranged from 4,000 to 6,200 if my memory serves me right.

    Once we arrived at his house, I let the bike idle for literally 1 minute max, and the engine overheat warning light appeared. Now the 3 falls I had were in no way hard falls, and as I mentioned they were on soft sand, so I doubt that anything mechanical or electrical is wrong with the bike.

    I felt some heat during the ride but it was mainly from the cat (the bike REALLY needs either a fueling mod or a cat removal), or at least it felt like it was coming from the cat.

    I immediately remembered a post from one of the Guzzitech members who posted a picture of a V85TT with an oil cooler. Could this be why? Does the V85TT engine not enjoy long rides at mediocre speeds? Did the engineers make a mistake? Or is it just my bike? I spoke to the service manager here (we only have 1 dealer and service center for Piaggio here) and mentioned this to him. He said he'll send Moto Guzzi and e-mail and update me with their reply.

    Again, this is the second time my V85TT has overheated on me. On the other hand, my V7II never complained.

    TLDR; Bike overheated again under normal circumstances.
     
  16. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    After a fast ride, leaving it idle for a minute could well cause overheating. 35 degrees is not cool by Italian standards.
     
  17. Faisal

    Faisal Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I highly doubt that a 1 minute idle will cause overheating after a decent ride since according to the manual, the warning light will come on at 180 C. That would mean that my bike was running at 160+ C the whole ride home. That's still hot.

    As for 35 C still being hot for Italian standards, I really don't think so. I say this because, again, I've ridden my V7 at temps WAY hotter than 35 C and for longer periods than what I rode my V85TT at and it never hiccuped on me once. My V7 is tuned with the Todd's flash module so I'm leaning towards the bike needing an immediate fueling mod rather than it being an engineering issue. At least that is what I'm hoping for.

    Manufacturers tend to over engineer their products to give leeway on such circumstances as Todd has mentioned before, Moto Guzzi does over engineer their bikes to withstand higher loads and forces and all that sciencey goodness.
     
  18. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Well the only way you can prove it either way is to check the temperature of the engine parts next time it cuts out. But an air cooled engine left idling for any period will heat up far more than you think because there is no air flow to cool it.
     
  19. 2004owene

    2004owene Just got it firing!

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    Note I’m in OZ, at my first 1500km service the dealer reflashed the ecu with an update that improves communication through the cbus, that’s all I was told. I didn’t notice any difference in the bike. I changed the oil at 3000km and went on a 4000km ride from Brisbane to Cairns via inland way. Mostly 32-35deg days, 2hours (120km) section of rough dirt and bull dust, a couple of 160kmh sections for about an hour, no warning lights. I could feel on my legs it was running a bit hotter but so was I! One section was pretty much full throttle in 5th and 6th and after about 30mins I could feel it was loosing power/getting less responsive so I backed off to 130 which is its happy spot. I had the tall screen on which makes it work a bit harder at high speed. When I got home with a bit over 7000km on the clock it was a bit ticky so I adjusted the valves and changed the oil again, running perfect. Whilst I say no heating issues I do feel if I kept pushing it would have.... I also note in 35deg traffic it gets poppy, snatchy, and cantankerous but so do I so didn’t feel it was a fault, just a feature of air cooled motors....just to add to the info. Thanks.
     
  20. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    It's an air cooled motor. How much "cooling" can you expect when riding in high temperatures? If you want to ride that fast, perhaps you should consider another model or even another manufacturer.
     

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