Griso 8v 068 map in UK

[gulveal]

Has anybody had the 068 map installed in their Griso 8v in the UK?

I am about to take mine for it's 6,000 mile service and I am wondering if I should expect the dealer to have and install this map. For all I know it may not be available in the UK or not deemed suitable for some reason.

Ideally I would have the Termi pipe installed, but having just had to look at our finances for filling in the tax form, I am not sure I could justify it.

If I can get the map, I will be interested in seeing what if any difference it makes by itself on a stock bike.

As a side note, I fell off about a month ago. I was only going about ten mph, following a car down a country lane, when the car braked suddenly to allow an oncoming car to get through. I automatically stood on the rear brake and the back of the bike slid from under me before I knew what was happening. I had only just left the dealer having got my second replacement left-hand switch unit, and so I rode back there to get the bike checked over. I had to replace the Stucchi Luigi crash bars, but that's what they are for. Apart from that the brake pedal got bent in a bit and the oil cooler scratched. My main injury was to my confidence and bruising to my right hand - it still hurts to move my little finger. I think I had got used to not using my front brake at low speeds, and never really using it hard. I have since been practising emergency stops and restricting my rear braking to low speed control use - junctions, roundabouts, etc.. I have also booked myself on to a BikeSafe course which is a days course run by the Police.

David

 

[Penis Rotor]

OK. The #68 map is available anywhere where the dealer has Axone or Navigator. It isn't market specific, it's simply a download to the tool. Whether it makes a huge difference will of course depend on whether your bike is properly set-up and tuned in the first place. Since you have fallen off get the TB's ballanced and the parrameters re0-set to factory spec as well.

Secondly, I suggest you get some training on how to ride a motorbike. If your 'Automatic' reation is to go for the back brake you are going to keep having crashes. The front brakes do the stopping, the rear one keeps everything in line, help a little bit and are handy for steering and holding the bike on a hill, that's all. Why do you think manufacturers put two bloody great discs on the front and a weedy little one on the back? it's NOT for appearances! Not having a go but you're going to be a risk to yourself and others if you keep that up.

Pete

 

[gulveal]

Thanks Pete. I have not read anywhere about somebody getting this in the UK and after your glowing reports of this map I expected to see more comments from other people on what it seemed like to them.

As to my crash, I realise that standing on the back brake was the wrong thing to do. That is why I have been training myself on using the front brake more. My initial reaction was to be very nervous of both of the brakes. When I got home I started looking up advice and asking friends for tips. As I said I am now restricting my rear brake use as you suggest and I am trying to ensure my automatic reaction is to use the front brake, though not suddenly. I did only pass my test in July 2008 and this is my first big bike. I realise I am a novice and I do think I have plenty of room for improvement. After the BikeSafe training at the end of May I will see what other training I need to move on to.

I think I just drifted into not using my front brake in any kind of aggressive way because I am not an aggressive rider and I am trying to be smooth and plan ahead. As I said I have been practicing emergency braking - using only the front brake - so that I can get used to what is possible and what it feels like and to be ready to use it automatically when required.

 

[Penis Rotor]

The problem with using the back brake to do any sort of serious stopping is that as it is applied, apart from the effect being negligable in terms of retardation it wil cause weight transfer to the frontwheel which further unloads the rear tyre naking a skid more likely if not inevitable. Using the front brake the weight trasfer forces the tyre contact patch into the road, LESSENING the chances of a skid. If you are leant over you obviously have to modulate tke braking to suit as you can still wash out the front end, even with anti-lock brakes which I for one am grateful I don't have.

The Griso is a fairly big, heavy bike. If I were you I'd get up early one Sunday morning and go to a Tesco's car park and practice braking for an hour or two in all weather conditions until you're confident you can hold it at the point of lock-up without falling off and that it becomes second nature. Another bit of advice? Ditch the crappy original FF pads and get some HH's for the front. Much more bite and sensitivity.

Pete

 

[Kid Thunder]

Pete,
How I learned to not use the rear brake years ago was to adjust it so it didn't work very well. Then I learned really FAST.
Then to completely get off was to buy an Apriia Tuono!! As you must know they mostly don't work for long no mater how you bleed them!
Don-M

 

[gulveal]

I wonder if part of the reason I automatically used my right foot to do the braking was thirty years of driving a car and less than two years riding a motorbike. I only use the bike about once a week for an hour or so and I could really do with more practice. I do continue to ride through the winter, but not in ice or snow.

One of the things that this incident also made me wonder was whether pulling the clutch in was the right thing to do. If I didn't, maybe the engine trying to continue to turn the rear wheel would help prevent it locking up so easily. Though maybe it would cause an abrupt stop at the end when it stalled!

Will the throttle bodies get balanced as part of the 6,000 mile (10,000 Km) service anyway? What are these parameters I should get reset?

David

 

[Gordon]

My 6,000 mile "spanner" came on today s0 will get my SE serviced in a week or so.
I am planning on having the 068 map put on it and I already have a Termi.
Will let you know what happens.
The real hope is that the fuel consumption improves as I am averaging 33MPG (that's UK gallons).
Cheers
Gordon

 

[Penis Rotor]

Will the throttle bodies get balanced as part of the 6,000 mile (10,000 Km) service anyway? What are these parameters I should get reset?

David

While in my experience once set up correctly TB settings don't tend to 'Wander' very much all bets are off if the bike has been dropped, the TB's or their linkage may of been jarred and put out of adjustement so yes, the ballance should be checked although you should be able to feel if they are out by much as the bike will pik up on one cylinder before the other and will vibrate more, especially at small throttle openings.

The parameters are in a list of things that the ECU sees as 'Normal' once again any jarring can cause some of the readings to change slightly. Once everything *physical* like the TB ballance etc. has been set up correctly re-setting the parameters simply informs the ECU everything is right and it 'Zeroes' everything back to the factory settings. Sorry that isn't very clear but it would be a lot easier to show you the screen on the tool so you could understand what I am talking about but i can't do that.

Pete

 

[cyclobutch]

The rear brake accident is clearly MGs fault for not providing a properly linked braking system. As such I should expect any damage incurred to be addressed under warranty (of course).

As an aside to that, it was amusing a year or two back to see this in effect at a short track come and try meeting at Rye House (home of the Rockets, a UK speedway team). The bikes have no front brake, but a rear to allow for 'backing' the bike into the corners (as opposed to proper speedway bikes which of course have no brakes at all). My V50 owning pal and I had no problems with the lack of front, the hard charging track day (tarmac) guys were quite alarmed at finding no lever on the bars whenever they reached for it.

 

[Brian UK]

The rear brake accident is clearly MGs fault for not providing a properly linked braking system. As such I should expect any damage incurred to be addressed under warranty (of course).

Surely it was the owner's fault for failing to buy the ABS version of the bike? :lol:

 

[Kid Thunder]

While ABS is great I think it fosters bad habits. Not all bikes have ABS & some you can shut off, so learning the RIGHT way is best. Old school I guess.
Don-M

 

[gulveal]

Thanks for the explanation Pete.

I am taking the bike in for it's service tomorrow. The dealer says he has got the new map, so we'll see.

On Sunday I went out to a meeting and when I got on the bike to come home it wouldn't start. It turned out to be the Ignition Relay Fuse (B in the service manual - a 15 Amp fuse). I don't know what caused that and I hope it doesn't happen again.

I don't think you could get ABS on the Griso 8v when I bought mine otherwise I might have gone for it.

I will report back after the service,

David

 

[cyclobutch]

I don't really 'get' ABS on a bike. The linked system on the veefer is great - you stand on the pedal and it's like the bike just sucks itself down onto the tarmac. I thought the point of ABS was so that you could turn whilst braking. If you stood on the anchors and got the front end diving in I don't see that you're going to be making much of a turn at the same time.

 

[gulveal]

I had the 6000 mile service on Wednesday but I didn't get the 068 map! The dealer said their was a glitch in the latest map he thought he had, and it had been withdrawn. He is going to get in touch when they issue a new one. I don't know which map I have in at the moment because he couldn't say - just the latest issued one that hadn't been withdrawn.

I went for my first ride since the service, this morning, and the bike would not keep going when I started it from cold -
11 degrees C. It would start, be very shaky and then stop again. Eventually I had to blip the throttle for a bit while it warmed up. Once warm it was fine starting and seemed to behave as normal otherwise. I think it is time to ring the dealer and trawl the forum for clues.

Doubly Disappointed,
David

 

[Penis Rotor]

Who's yer dealer? PM me if you don't want to reveal it on line. I may be able to help.

Pete

 

[RPB]

Symptoms sound similar: in the fall last year I got the 068 map. Nice but when the temps dropped the bike wouldn't idle
when cold. Went back to the dealer and they were puzzled and eventually had the bike for more than 2 months in which finally the steppermotor was replaced because it was bust. Sure enough, when I got the bike back all was well again. Until I looked at the steppermotor and saw that the hose from the airbox to the steppermotor was not connected to the stepper motor! I connected it and the bike displayed the same symptoms as before the stepper motor was replaced though warmed up the bike idlesmore slowly than before. I disconnected the hose again so it starts fine again, but effectively the bike is sucking in unfiltered air in this way via the steppermotor. Still have to go back to the dealer. I'm wondering if this is related to the 068 map or just the bike not set up correctly. I have now ordered the VDSTS software to have a look myself...

 

[Belfastguzzi]

I'd say, make sure that the bike is actually set-up right, before suspecting the stepper motor or a dodgy fuel map (what is that reference above to a glitch in the #68 map?).

I knew that the dealer who did work on my bike had caused physical damage, including causing an oil leak from one barrel, but I have now seen that almost everything that could be wrong with his 'set-up', was wrong.
This ranges from wild setting of the tappets (one lot was extremely wide, another lot was closed up tight) to not resetting the tps and other parameters after loading the 68 fuel map. The motor was running bad.

I have now gapped the tappets; balanced the throttle bodies & set idle (linkage adjuster, bleed screws and sacred screw - yeah - don't ask!); installed or reinstalled the 68 map; reset the tps, reset the parameters; rechecked everything etc etc.
All those things listed above were off (after the Dealer Service) and bike ran like a pig.
Now, after the set-up and with #68 map, it is so much better, smooth, runs fine at idle and at low speeds...

 

[pauldaytona]

Since I got a new map last summer for the 08 stelvio, it has the same problems, idle to low when cold. Above 17 or it isn't a problem, and afer 3 km it's hot enough to. I read it is a common problem.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Here I think is an opportune time to hop in with a bit of 'Background' on Belfastguzzis bike.

I've 'Known' Dave for a number of years from V11.com. He's a long term Guzzisti who obviously has a passion for the brand. He was one of the first people I knew who hopped in and bought an 8V when they were released, in fact he got his before I got mine! Right from the get-go it was obvious to blind Freddy'd brain-dead uncle that something was horribly wrong with it. It went through two sets of cams and tappets before the 'Technical Update' was announced and even after he got the 'New' bits it was still running like a dog. More and more evidence pointed to the fact that it had simply been butchered by his 'Service agent' and his frustration was manifest and his disappointment keenly obvious.

Several times he nearly gave up on it but over the months I was able to convince him that it WASN'T the bike's fault. When I was compelled to purchase Navigator I offered him my old Axone, with the latest upgrades installed in it, and posted it to him in Northern Ireland. Now Dave ISN'T, as far as I know, a qualified mechanic but he is a thoroughly decent bloke, (He's very coy about it but I suspect that his 'Job' involves 'Good Works' in one of the more troublesome parts of the planet and 'Good Works' never pay well.) and the fact that he has a similarly warped sense of humour to me and a 'Git 'er done' attitude helps a lot.

With a bit of feedback and instruction from myself and others HE has managed to sort most of the problems with his bike. ALL of which were due not, (Apart from the cam/tappet issues) to the Bike/Moto Guzzi but due to his supposedly skilled and proffesional 'Service agent'. The fact that his bike is, at last, beginning to sing indicates that if you are willing to try and stand on your own two feet and act in your own interests and 'DO STUFF' it is more than possible to overcome the ineptitude foisted upon you, the customers, by stupidity and inefficiency.

My Axone has now become a 'Roving Tool'. It's off to visit Denis Hansen in the USA next and then it will be posted off to a variety of other headbanggers and rat-bags world wide. All of whom are willing to 'Have a go'. I've posted up comprehensive instructions of the tools basic functions and those have been more than enough to enable Dave, with questions being asked, to address the MAJOR issues of his bike.

At the end of the day it ALL comes down to attitude. You can either be part of a problem, or part of a sollution. YOUR CHOICE!!!!!!

Pete

 

[Belfastguzzi]

It went through two sets of cams and tappets... and even after he got the 'New' bits it was still running like a dog. More and more evidence pointed to the fact that it had simply been butchered by his 'Service agent'

Hi Pete
and thanks again for everything. Just to clarify the cams and tappets: I have had one replacement not two. (Though who knows what the future may hold :S )
It's been a long and complicated story and think that you have picked up the double replacement idea because I had to deal with two different service agent/dealers. Before tappets problem, I had already had other problems with the original dealer where the bike was purchased. He was new to Guzzis but had a full range of bikes in stock and seemed enthusiastic. I couldn't believe it! Dealerships here have been a real problem (5 different dealerships in as many years) and I had never before seen a full range of bikes in stock. I got carried away and made a purchase, thinking that this guy was in it for the long-term. However it soon became evident that he hadn't a clue and things weren't what they seemed. At the time when my tappets went bad, destroyed at only 2,500 miles, I couldn't get any response from the dealer. Long story short: dealer disappeared and Piaggio didn't step in to help. I eventually got 'permission' to take it to the one other small dealership in the country, the only surviving MG place in Ireland.

So the cam problem started with one dodgy dealer, then moved to another. I reckon that's why you thought that the work was done twice.

The second Dealer place turned out to be diabolically bad. As you have also sort-of commented, I think that dealers / service agents could get-by in the previous era with a hammer and a spanner, a 'one procedure fits all machines' approach, one oil fits all, etc.
He's not even vaguely clued-in to the new bikes and never will be. So cams were replaced but other damage was done at the same time and following. Long story with no satisfaction from dealer (who will lose Guzzi for sure) or from Piaggio.
Hence, as we know, the absolute necessity of getting help through the international internet forums that are so despised by the official (Piaggio in this case) system.