I don't know if a dealer could do this (I suspect not), but I can tell you looking at the fuel and timing data between the two, this would be a VERY bad idea.Moto Fugazzi said:I realize that I am being very stupid right now, but has anybody tried the 8V map in the 4V engine?inch:
Just curious what would happen. Might be a fun experiment for someone, but I'm sure it's a horrible idea. I am not a mechanic or tech by any stretch of the imagination.
I hope this is enough disclaimer for me not to get ripped on.......
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Griso 8v 068 map in UK
- Thread starter gulveal
- Start date
I didn't even think about the timing with the ecu.
All of my other bikes are 1980 and older, and don't have that kind of nonsense on them.
This is why I generally keep my dumb thoughts to myself on forums.
All of my other bikes are 1980 and older, and don't have that kind of nonsense on them.
This is why I generally keep my dumb thoughts to myself on forums.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Also I'm pretty sure that the tooling would recognise the ECU as not being compliant with that map and wouldn't allow it to load. Not certain. Haven't tried it.
Incidentally I got V8 up and running with Navigator and it told me I could upload a new map, errrr... GRS8V68s which I'm pretty sure is exactly what I had in before! Anyway. I uploaded it and will report back after I've takien it for a caning!
Pete
Incidentally I got V8 up and running with Navigator and it told me I could upload a new map, errrr... GRS8V68s which I'm pretty sure is exactly what I had in before! Anyway. I uploaded it and will report back after I've takien it for a caning!
Pete
I've just done 75 miles since the 68 map was loaded. So far it seems an enormous improvement. I had re-installed the db killer in the Mistral last week and that noticeably smoothed out the mid-range. Today the bike was serviced & 68 installed. It's a completely different beast now in the nicest possible way! Much smoother thru' the whole rev range & response is much punchier, but it will take a few regular rides to see if fuel consumption is better too as Gordon describes.
So thank you Pete for bringing the 68 map to my attention!
So thank you Pete for bringing the 68 map to my attention!
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Just a bit of further explanation on this.
It seems that sometime in 2009 there was yet another map change. I can't say absolutely what its ID# is but I think its something like GRS8V108. It is the map that is in ALL the 2010 bikes and maybe in some of the last of the 2009 machines, these upgrades tend to simply be incorporated in the production run rather than being 'Year Specific' or so it seems.
Interestingly though this new map does NOT seem to be available as a download in the V8 of Nagrivator. As I said above when I fired my tool up on my Griso I was told I could upload GRS8V068s which I'm pretty sure is what I had before. The thing is the two A5 motored machines I've ridden, a 2010 Griso 8V and a 1200 Sport 4V were both an absolute delight! Especially the bottom end fueling was outstanding even compared to my bike which I'm really pretty happy with!
Now as far as I can make out there are no *Significant* changes to the A5 motors used this year and those of earlier years which would seem to indicate that the improvement MUST be down to the new mapping! Now I'm still having a couple of issues downloading new mappings into my Navigator but I'd be surprised if there were any so soon after the release of V8. We may get upgrades between now and the release of V9 but talking to Daniel at the importer yesterday he said there had been a couple of complaints from people in Queensland about poor performance in the midrange and one of them had a corrupt ECU in his late '08-early '09 model and the warrant ECU had come with the 'New' map in it but the bike still didn't run as well as the owner thought it should. I talked to the mechanic at the shop who I've dealt with before and he is knowledgeable and dilligent and had done all the regular 'Stuff', resetting TPS, Parameters etc. I could offer little in the way of advice. I AM though hopeful of getting a 'Loaner' ECU with the new map in which I can then install on my 8V and use as a test bed, but I can see no reason why the new programme shouldn't work with an 'Older' bike??? I think the only way I'll find out is by experimentation!!!
I hasten to add that the #68 map still sits as the 'Benchmark' for pre 2010 Griso 8V machines. It IS in the latest version of Navigator and I certainly had no problems uploading it to my machine. Just go into 'Reprogramming' and follow the instructions. Then go to 'Petrol Injection' and re-set the TPS and Parameters. Job done!!!
Pete
PS. I have yet to take my bike out since re-loading the 68s map for the simple reason it's been pissing with rain here. As soon as it dries off I'll take it for a flog and report back
It seems that sometime in 2009 there was yet another map change. I can't say absolutely what its ID# is but I think its something like GRS8V108. It is the map that is in ALL the 2010 bikes and maybe in some of the last of the 2009 machines, these upgrades tend to simply be incorporated in the production run rather than being 'Year Specific' or so it seems.
Interestingly though this new map does NOT seem to be available as a download in the V8 of Nagrivator. As I said above when I fired my tool up on my Griso I was told I could upload GRS8V068s which I'm pretty sure is what I had before. The thing is the two A5 motored machines I've ridden, a 2010 Griso 8V and a 1200 Sport 4V were both an absolute delight! Especially the bottom end fueling was outstanding even compared to my bike which I'm really pretty happy with!
Now as far as I can make out there are no *Significant* changes to the A5 motors used this year and those of earlier years which would seem to indicate that the improvement MUST be down to the new mapping! Now I'm still having a couple of issues downloading new mappings into my Navigator but I'd be surprised if there were any so soon after the release of V8. We may get upgrades between now and the release of V9 but talking to Daniel at the importer yesterday he said there had been a couple of complaints from people in Queensland about poor performance in the midrange and one of them had a corrupt ECU in his late '08-early '09 model and the warrant ECU had come with the 'New' map in it but the bike still didn't run as well as the owner thought it should. I talked to the mechanic at the shop who I've dealt with before and he is knowledgeable and dilligent and had done all the regular 'Stuff', resetting TPS, Parameters etc. I could offer little in the way of advice. I AM though hopeful of getting a 'Loaner' ECU with the new map in which I can then install on my 8V and use as a test bed, but I can see no reason why the new programme shouldn't work with an 'Older' bike??? I think the only way I'll find out is by experimentation!!!
I hasten to add that the #68 map still sits as the 'Benchmark' for pre 2010 Griso 8V machines. It IS in the latest version of Navigator and I certainly had no problems uploading it to my machine. Just go into 'Reprogramming' and follow the instructions. Then go to 'Petrol Injection' and re-set the TPS and Parameters. Job done!!!
Pete
PS. I have yet to take my bike out since re-loading the 68s map for the simple reason it's been pissing with rain here. As soon as it dries off I'll take it for a flog and report back
I've just had a few minutes checking my figures...
My Griso's now done just over 8000 miles from new.......
But since I had the 068 map installed & refitted the db killer in the Mistral I have done 1855 miles and seem to be heading towards nearly 50mpg (UK gallons). Its been a good mix of roads from motorway thru' to country lanes. Only thing I haven't done is any inner city riding.
During those 1855 miles I have done the calculations for just a few hundred miles over 2 or 3 days & it was always mid-40s. So it seems it is getting better and better. It's a great improvement over the pre-068 map when I was struggling to get 40mpg!
Whats everyone else getting? ......or am I the only one sad enough check?
My Griso's now done just over 8000 miles from new.......
But since I had the 068 map installed & refitted the db killer in the Mistral I have done 1855 miles and seem to be heading towards nearly 50mpg (UK gallons). Its been a good mix of roads from motorway thru' to country lanes. Only thing I haven't done is any inner city riding.
During those 1855 miles I have done the calculations for just a few hundred miles over 2 or 3 days & it was always mid-40s. So it seems it is getting better and better. It's a great improvement over the pre-068 map when I was struggling to get 40mpg!
Whats everyone else getting? ......or am I the only one sad enough check?
Gordon
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2008
- Messages
- 38
One thing that I did check on mine was when I road over to Spa Francorchamps for the weekend (Bikers Classic sponsored by Moto Guzzi .. another story thee) I switched the display to metric.
When I converted the fuel consumption back from lt/100KM to MPG I found that the display, when subsequently reset back to miles, gave fuel consumption as miles per US gallon.
So what is displayed needs to be multiplied by 1.2 to get the miles per real gallon.
On a 450 miles afternoon run back from Spa at quite quick speeds I averaged 42mpg.
Now I'm back to "normal" riding I'm around 48050 mpg (that's UK gallons).
Hope this helps.
Gordon
When I converted the fuel consumption back from lt/100KM to MPG I found that the display, when subsequently reset back to miles, gave fuel consumption as miles per US gallon.
So what is displayed needs to be multiplied by 1.2 to get the miles per real gallon.
On a 450 miles afternoon run back from Spa at quite quick speeds I averaged 42mpg.
Now I'm back to "normal" riding I'm around 48050 mpg (that's UK gallons).
Hope this helps.
Gordon
Gordon,
I'm technologically incompatible with the digital display so I've been doing it the old fashioned way: I have the display set to miles and I write down the litres of fuel I put in, then do miles per litre & convert to mpg!
Of course there are variables like the accuracy of fuel pump's readout & me decyphering my own semi-legible runes scrawlled on a scrap of papyrus......but thats progress....until recently I would have had to ride home & scratch it all on my cave wall with a shard of flint!
I'm technologically incompatible with the digital display so I've been doing it the old fashioned way: I have the display set to miles and I write down the litres of fuel I put in, then do miles per litre & convert to mpg!
Of course there are variables like the accuracy of fuel pump's readout & me decyphering my own semi-legible runes scrawlled on a scrap of papyrus......but thats progress....until recently I would have had to ride home & scratch it all on my cave wall with a shard of flint!
Brian UK
GT Reference
The average fuel figure displayed is also known to be pessimistic, even after the conversion to imperial. On a recent trip in France, I actually got 55 and a bit mpg (imp) but the display said 43mpg (US).
gulveal
Tuned and Synch'ed
A couple of weeks ago I finally got around to taking my bike to Moto Corsa, as recommended, to see if they could put a new map in for me and to get them to check everything else. This wasn't a light decision because it is 200 miles / 5hours away - 50 miles further by the time I stayed with my cousin in the vicinity.
The tappets all needed adjusting - some were too tight, some too loose, the throttle bodies needed adjusting and a spark lead had to be replaced. They re-gapped the plugs as well and, most importantly, downloaded the latest map. They offered me a loan bike and were generally nice and friendly.
I do not know what map I have got in now because the technician didn't note it down, but I do know that it went in with the original map fron June 2008. I was interested to know what they thought of my suspension setup because I had made significant changes, as documented on another thread, but they seemed to think it was handling very nicely.
I didn't really notice if the bike was better on the way home because I was in a bit of a daze from the long journey. I haven't had chance to go out on the bike much since, which is why it has taken me a while to post, but it is definitely much improved. I can now ride smoothly at 30mph in fifth gear. It seems happy to pick up from 2500rpm when previously I had to keep it at about 4000rpm to keep things smooth. A consequence of this is that I don't keep running into the rev limiter like I used to because I have got a wider rev range to play with. I can't say for certain if the power delivery has less of a step in delivery because it has been wet and, rather than revving it, I have been relishing the new found low-down pull that I always thought the engine should have had. I do seem to be getting better fuel consumption as well, but again it is too early to give any figures.
I am very pleased that the bike has been sorted and I will not be going back to my original dealer again. I suppose there is no reason I will ever need a new map again because this one is great, so any competent garage should be able to service the bike - it wouldn't have to be a dealer. It is a pity that Moto Corsa are so far away, but having found someone who knows what they are doing, it would be a big risk to go elsewhere and obviously I think they deserve my custom.
David
The tappets all needed adjusting - some were too tight, some too loose, the throttle bodies needed adjusting and a spark lead had to be replaced. They re-gapped the plugs as well and, most importantly, downloaded the latest map. They offered me a loan bike and were generally nice and friendly.
I do not know what map I have got in now because the technician didn't note it down, but I do know that it went in with the original map fron June 2008. I was interested to know what they thought of my suspension setup because I had made significant changes, as documented on another thread, but they seemed to think it was handling very nicely.
I didn't really notice if the bike was better on the way home because I was in a bit of a daze from the long journey. I haven't had chance to go out on the bike much since, which is why it has taken me a while to post, but it is definitely much improved. I can now ride smoothly at 30mph in fifth gear. It seems happy to pick up from 2500rpm when previously I had to keep it at about 4000rpm to keep things smooth. A consequence of this is that I don't keep running into the rev limiter like I used to because I have got a wider rev range to play with. I can't say for certain if the power delivery has less of a step in delivery because it has been wet and, rather than revving it, I have been relishing the new found low-down pull that I always thought the engine should have had. I do seem to be getting better fuel consumption as well, but again it is too early to give any figures.
I am very pleased that the bike has been sorted and I will not be going back to my original dealer again. I suppose there is no reason I will ever need a new map again because this one is great, so any competent garage should be able to service the bike - it wouldn't have to be a dealer. It is a pity that Moto Corsa are so far away, but having found someone who knows what they are doing, it would be a big risk to go elsewhere and obviously I think they deserve my custom.
David
Good to hear.
I got mine done at Speedaway in B'ham. Caution: the guy on the workshop counter has NO IDEA what he is on about, and I'm unsure of the mechanic. I asked him to check the TPS and he said there was no point, he has never seen one wrong. I asked him to check it anyway but I dont think he did.
Other places:
DK Newcastle used to be Guzzi dealers but gave it up (through non-payment by the factory apparently). They have a Navigator but when I asked them to see if they had the G11 003 map, they said it wasnt loading up.
Dans Stafford claims to have one but it's always "in for repair".
Bikerz Swadlincote is allegedly an Aprilia dealer but says they don't have Guzzi maps. Or they couldnt be arsed to look to see if they did, at any rate.
Other places:
DK Newcastle used to be Guzzi dealers but gave it up (through non-payment by the factory apparently). They have a Navigator but when I asked them to see if they had the G11 003 map, they said it wasnt loading up.
Dans Stafford claims to have one but it's always "in for repair".
Bikerz Swadlincote is allegedly an Aprilia dealer but says they don't have Guzzi maps. Or they couldnt be arsed to look to see if they did, at any rate.
I hooked up the VDSTS for the very first time today after 3 months/3,000km since I got the 2009 Griso SE in May 2010.
The TPS reading is perfect, 4.6 fully close and 85.0 fully open. However, I was unable to retrieve the version of the map.
Under the Gauge-Meter screen and System Information screen I get:-
MG978406.0 and
2230G801
It hardly resembles the GRS8V068 or even the superseded GRS8V054
The engine runs great since day 1. I reminded the dealer about the 068 map during the PDI (pre-delivery inspection) and they reassured that my bike has the latest map as the Axone shows no further updates when they hooked it up.
The programming date shown by VDSTS is 20052008, 20 May 2008 I guess.
Should I make a trip to the dealer to update the map, will it make the already good running engine even better?
Can anyone who has 068 map installed and VDSTS take a peek on the VDSTS screen?
Cheers,
Phang
The TPS reading is perfect, 4.6 fully close and 85.0 fully open. However, I was unable to retrieve the version of the map.
Under the Gauge-Meter screen and System Information screen I get:-
MG978406.0 and
2230G801
It hardly resembles the GRS8V068 or even the superseded GRS8V054
The engine runs great since day 1. I reminded the dealer about the 068 map during the PDI (pre-delivery inspection) and they reassured that my bike has the latest map as the Axone shows no further updates when they hooked it up.
The programming date shown by VDSTS is 20052008, 20 May 2008 I guess.
Should I make a trip to the dealer to update the map, will it make the already good running engine even better?
Can anyone who has 068 map installed and VDSTS take a peek on the VDSTS screen?
Cheers,
Phang
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
2230G801 is the original factory map.
If the bike runs fine? Why change it? If it is running well it might be because the SE uses the later A8 motor as these run fine out of the box with the original map which seems not to have been changed along with the cams. I'm not 100% certain on that as I haven't had time to trawl through the parts list and confirm but when I get a chance to I will.
Certainly for bikes with the A5 motor the #68 map makes a huge improvement over stock.
Pete
If the bike runs fine? Why change it? If it is running well it might be because the SE uses the later A8 motor as these run fine out of the box with the original map which seems not to have been changed along with the cams. I'm not 100% certain on that as I haven't had time to trawl through the parts list and confirm but when I get a chance to I will.
Certainly for bikes with the A5 motor the #68 map makes a huge improvement over stock.
Pete
Thanks Pete.
The engine number of my SE is A5_014295, I presume it has an A5 motor/engine.
However, I have read somewhere online; the SE has different cam profiles, injectors and air box compared to the Griso 8V of the same year. The SE also produces a slightly greater torque at lower engine rpm.
This seems consistent with your findings and riding impressions of the 2010 A8 motor-ed bikes.
Now back to my bike, the engine is smooth revving from idle speed up to the redline, no hiccup, no surging, no flat spot, no popping and has a very consistent fuel consumption of 18~19km/L since day one. It runs great and I am quite reluctant to make changes to it unless something goes wrong.
Weather is extremely good now, I should bring her out for a spin
The engine number of my SE is A5_014295, I presume it has an A5 motor/engine.
However, I have read somewhere online; the SE has different cam profiles, injectors and air box compared to the Griso 8V of the same year. The SE also produces a slightly greater torque at lower engine rpm.
This seems consistent with your findings and riding impressions of the 2010 A8 motor-ed bikes.
Now back to my bike, the engine is smooth revving from idle speed up to the redline, no hiccup, no surging, no flat spot, no popping and has a very consistent fuel consumption of 18~19km/L since day one. It runs great and I am quite reluctant to make changes to it unless something goes wrong.
Weather is extremely good now, I should bring her out for a spin
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
In which case? Leave it alone. There is no point in screwing with something you're happy with.
Pete
Pete
I intentionally ride the SE slower than usual just now, hit the city traffic instead of the expressway/freeway/highway cruising and hold the throttle at various rpm between 2500~4000 in different gear. First and second gears were slightly snatchy mainly due to the drivetrain slack but manageable with a smooth throttle control. The rest of the gears were smooth and sweet.
I’m a happy man.
I’m a happy man.
gulveal
Tuned and Synch'ed
Here in the UK it has started to get a bit colder at night. The other night I was out in 12 degrees C and the bike was noticeably perkier.
I thought having the new map in might have done enough to make any changes due to cold weather insignificant. I am certainly happy with the way the engine is normally behaving - it picks up fine from low revs and is nice and smooth. It's just that tempting hint that there is something more in there waiting to be accessed. Do you suppose that even with the new map it is still running a bit lean down low?
The other thing I was wondering is if it is worth using Super Unleaded (97 RON+) petrol. Is the ECU aware of the quality of the petrol when below 4,000 rpm. If not, this could be a way of making it run slightly richer. I assume the O2 reading would take care of the revs above this and not make the top end any richer than it already is. Otherwise it's making me think of the air temperature sensor fudging device again.
David
I thought having the new map in might have done enough to make any changes due to cold weather insignificant. I am certainly happy with the way the engine is normally behaving - it picks up fine from low revs and is nice and smooth. It's just that tempting hint that there is something more in there waiting to be accessed. Do you suppose that even with the new map it is still running a bit lean down low?
The other thing I was wondering is if it is worth using Super Unleaded (97 RON+) petrol. Is the ECU aware of the quality of the petrol when below 4,000 rpm. If not, this could be a way of making it run slightly richer. I assume the O2 reading would take care of the revs above this and not make the top end any richer than it already is. Otherwise it's making me think of the air temperature sensor fudging device again.
David