HELP! Need advice on Evap Removal V7C

[foggy95]

New to this forum, but an old Guzzi owner from way back (MKIII LeMans days). First a 'hello' to all and a big thanks for all I've learned so far from reading many posts.

My question/problem involves the removal of the Evap system from my 2009 V7 Classic. I bought the bike a few weeks ago, and like it very much. I've read a few post here and other sites on the Evap removal process, and this morning, have done the job. However, I am now getting pressure building up in the gas tank, and the one hose I left remaining, is making a 'honking' or groaning sound after I shut off the hot engine. (and some fumes coming out). This remaining hose is the one from the tank that originally went into to cannister. I was of a mind to just let that last hose remain as a standard 'vent' hose. Looking at the schematic in the owners manual, (and verified by my bike), that hose has a pressure valve in it. Do I need to eliminate that valve? Is that why I'm getting pressure in my tank?

The 'T' hose that connected the throttle bodies to the cannister has been removed, and I ran a clear plastic tubing between the throttle bodies directly. I did this because I could not remove the connectors on the throttle bodies, as they would only turn a bit before hitting the cylinder heads.

The hose coming from the 'outlet' side of the cannister to the airbox has been eliminated, leaving a small opening in the side of the airbox. Should this be closed off, or just left open?

Thanks in advance for any replies/advice!

 

[draidt]

Eliminate the valve 10
Hose 6 reroute to the bottom of the bike but avoid the exhaust system
Eliminate all hose 7's plus the tee fitting 8.
connect both fittings 19 on the intake runners together with a length of hose

 

[boptone1]

Drait's reply should do it. I'm pretty sure that is how my removal took place. And I have removed the evap systems on all three of my Guzzis. The Jackal and Cal vint had positive pressure. The V7 negative.

Make sure that both tank breathers are not pinched. This is very easy to do when re-setting the tank.

 

[jest2dogs]

Whereas I like "clean lines" and all. To what end improvement does the removal of the evap system achieve?

I have a 2007 750 Breva and I haven't really looked into all that yet. Does it run better without? Is this V7 schematic valid for the Breva?

Why do this mod? Is it even applicable to my Breva?

 

[sign216]

Do the removal with careful thought. The crankcase breathing helps oil mist get to the valves to lube them. The charcoal cannister is part of that overly complicated system, and you don't want to disrupt the oil mist feeding.

Joe

 

[foggy95]

Thanks for the fast replies, and especially to draidt for that sketch....I had everything right except for the elimination of that pressure valve. I went to an auto supply store this morning and got an equivelent lenght of 'emissions' hose and replaced that whole section. Bike runs fine now with no tank pressure and no noticable fumes.

Secondary problem, I cannot get the rear tank mounting bolt back in .. it will not line up with the receiving threaded hole in the bracket that is part of the frame. It is offset to the rear by an 1/8 of an inch or so. No amount of pushing forward on the tank would allow me to line this hole up. I ended up leaving the bushing out, and just using washers as spacers to compensate for the flat part of the bushing. When I take the bike in for it's first service, I'll discuss this with the mechanic. Has anyone else had a similar problem? I didn't have the tank off, just removed that bolt so I could raise the rear of the tank enough to get access to the tank vent nipple.

 

[NOLAGuzzi]

Whereas I like "clean lines" and all. To what end improvement does the removal of the evap system achieve?

I have a 2007 759 Breva and I haven't really looked into all that yet. Does it run better without? Is this V7 schematic valid for the Breva?

Why do thhis mod? Is it even applicable to my Breva?

Yes it is applicable to the breva. But the canister is hidden on the breva under the bodywork. However, I took mine off b/c I got tired of the little one way valve getting stuck and causing tank suck.

Sign,
AFAIK the evap system is not even fitted to Euro bikes it is a US EPA thing. Look at the hoses, one is coming off the gas cap vent, one off the throttle body joining tube and one out of the airbox going to the canister. Removing the canister won't hurt the oil mist recovery in the least. It is there to collect gas fumes not oil.

The oil mist is coming off the top of the valve covers through breather pipes into the airbox and the return goes from the bottom of the airbox back into the oil sump. None of this changes when you take off the canister.

I got a Y fitting and joined hose 11 into the breather hose from the R side valve cover, but you could just plug the hole in the air box. If it is just left open oil mist will escape. How did you do this DanR or Foggy?

The only downside to this modification that I can see is that if you drop the bike it can have fuel spill out of the gas cap vent hose because the little one way valve is missing.


Foggy,
my tank takes considerable effort to get it back on too. And as said before make sure the gas cap vent hoses are not pinched.

 

[foggy95]

"I got a Y fitting and joined hose 11 into the breather hose from the R side valve cover, but you could just plug the hole in the air box. If it is just left open oil mist will escape. How did you do this DanR or Foggy?"

I plugged the hole in the right side of the airbox with a bolt I had in my 'collection' that just happened to thread in perfectly.
Does anyone happen to know what size bolt that is in the rear of the tank? I thought it was a metric, 8mm - 1.25 , I bought an 'extra' in case I buggered the threads on the original, but it doesn't turn in freely - starts to bind. Do these newer Guzzis generally use metric fasteners? I know my older Guzzis were all metric.

 

[sign216]

Nola, I didn't say not to do it, I said to "use care." If the fitting from the airbox to the canister (no. 21) isn't plugged, then the airbox vacuum will be diminished and the oil mist lubrication to the valves will be disrupted.

But let me raise a more interesting issue. The canister lines link the two throttle bodies, much like an exhaust crossover. While an exhaust crossover increases performance, can the same be said of a "throttle body crossover?"

So the question is whether or not to leave the throttle body crossover in place, even if the canister is gone.

Joe

 

[NOLAGuzzi]

I just capped the nipples on the throttle bodies and did not notice any difference. I have no clue if it really matters though.

 

[Bikebits]

Nola, I didn't say not to do it, I said to "use care." If the fitting from the airbox to the canister (no. 21) isn't plugged, then the airbox vacuum will be diminished and the oil mist lubrication to the valves will be disrupted.

But let me raise a more interesting issue. The canister lines link the two throttle bodies, much like an exhaust crossover. While an exhaust crossover increases performance, can the same be said of a "throttle body crossover?"

So the question is whether or not to leave the throttle body crossover in place, even if the canister is gone.

Joe

There is no need for any "oil mist" lubrication to the valves via the evap. system. They are fully lubricated by the internal pressurized oil feed system. NONE of the evap. canister kit is present on bikes from outside of the North American market. (check the parts diagrams) Its sole purpose is to satisfy the EPA.

There is no need to link the carbs with a hose either. A simple cap on each vacuum port will suffice. Non North American spec bikes have a machine screw plugging the throttle bodies where the N.A. vacuum ports are located.

 

[sign216]

[/quote]

There is no need for any "oil mist" lubrication to the valves via the evap. system. They are fully lubricated by the internal pressurized oil feed system. [/quote]

Bikebits, the smallblocks use the oil mist to supplement valve lubrication. Take a look at this:

"The breather system on the small block was originally designed to help carry oil mist up to the valve gear." That's from another website; Squadra Guzzista, in an article on the V65. See http://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Sessantacinque+GT

Also take a look at the article "Improving Crankcase Breathing in Air-Cooled Engines," not in the body of the report, but in the sidebar.

Guzzi does have force fed oil to the valves from the pump, but it also uses the oil mist, like so many older engine designs.

If I am wrong on this, I am open to education.

Joe

 

[john zibell]

There is no need for any "oil mist" lubrication to the valves via the evap. system. They are fully lubricated by the internal pressurized oil feed system.

Bikebits, the smallblocks use the oil mist to supplement valve lubrication. Take a look at this:

"The breather system on the small block was originally designed to help carry oil mist up to the valve gear." That's from another website; Squadra Guzzista, in an article on the V65. See http://guzzista.wetpaint.com/page/Sessantacinque+GT

Also take a look at the article "Improving Crankcase Breathing in Air-Cooled Engines," not in the body of the report, but in the sidebar.

Guzzi does have force fed oil to the valves from the pump, but it also uses the oil mist, like so many older engine designs.

If I am wrong on this, I am open to education.

Joe

Joel,

The evap can is for fuel vapors. There is still plenty of misting going on with the fuel system vapor lines removed. That is the purpose of the vent lines from the valve covers going to the airbox.

 

[sign216]

Please read my original post post more carefully.

If the canister is removed without plugging the lines to the airbox, the set up of the airbox is botched.

 

[john zibell]

Please read my original post post more carefully.

If the canister is removed without plugging the lines to the airbox, the set up of the airbox is botched.

So when you do yours, plug the lines to your airbox and you should be happy. I think I agree with you there should be no open lines going to the clean side of the airbox. Just make the valve cover venting like the old V50s.