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FrostBittenCanadian

FrostBittenCanadian

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Nov 16, 2008
Messages
406
Location
Toronto
:angry: :angry: :angry: Went for a ride on the weekend to the Ontario Guzzi riders rally. Never made it! Friday night in traffic engine detonating and cutting out momentarily. On open two lane highways it was fine ( sounding temp relaated ) Got to a hotel and the ECU fail symbol was on the board. Stayed that way for a couple of hours then disappeared. Sat tried to go to the rally, a monsoon made me and the girlfriend say screw it and turn back to the hotel. Started drinking in disgust. Next day made it to what was left of the rally sat around for a couple of hours shooting bull over coffee. Went for a ride around the lake it was held at. Next day left for home and as soon as we pulle d out of the hotel parking lot engine died ... ECU failure ,was able to restart engine and booked. Stopped at construction on highway for about 5 min. engine died ...ECU failure. After about 10 min. engine restarted and screamed back to Toronto on freeway. Got off into city traffic for about 15 min. going through a busy intersection engine died. Pulled into gas station parking lot, completely dead. After about 2hours waiting for flat bed. Engine would try to start but wouldn't keep running. Trucked it to dealer where you guessed it. It started after 2nd attempt. Manager of dealer thinks I'm full of S@#$. He can go sodomize himself I've had just about enough of his crap. I will post a lovely picture of my lump in the back of a pickup shortly. Cool rig for transporting a bike. Bike strapped down to wheel stirrups on an extensible track.
FBC
 
FB, did they look over the bike for anything such as loose ground or battery or various interlock switch failures before handing it back to you??

I'm sure anybody with a mechanical background such as you and a good diagram could go over the bike and come across something. I would quit depending on the dealer, he sounds absolutely hopeless. The sooner you do this, the sooner you'll enjoy what I'm sure is a great motorcycle.

I understand you paid good money and it's his responsability to take care of you, yada yada... but in the meantime you're the one stuck at the gas station.

I hope you get this settled ASAP
 
Frost Bite......

I know you say the ECU light came on (where is that anyhow?) I have only seen the "red triangle" come on when my turn signal bulb fell out of the socket.

Just a thought............see post from Bigtex about fuel line, also about three weeks ago my Stelvio would die in traffic or at a stop sign / red light. It would restart but run like sh*t, I would shut it off and restart it and it would run fine for a period of time before crapping out again. I found the left hand spark plug boot had come loose from the plug and it was making contact only some of the time. After reseating the plug boot I have not had any other problems other than water getting into my tank while filling up in a rain storm, that just gives me the old dead miss and then picks right back up. I need to get some dry gas.
 
In fact, this sounds a lot like the problems people would have when they had a bad spark plug cap. Good starting point.
 
Wayne Orwig wrote:
In fact, this sounds a lot like the problems people would have when they had a bad spark plug cap. Good starting point.
Click to expand...
If I'm not wrong, it was a pretty common problem in the first batches of Stelvios.
 
So let me get this straight, you guys are telling me that a spark plug cap improperly contacting ( but contacting) will cause detonation at a certain temp. The engine to miss while underway, wildly fluctuating fuel mileage, an ECU error code and the hole bike to just shut down while in motion. All this because some idiot designer puts plug caps on that are so tight no one can use them reliably, then puts them under some stupid bolted down cover for that homo-erotic modular look to the engine rocker covers???????????
FBC
 
FrostBittenCanadian wrote:
So let me get this straight, you guys are telling me that a spark plug cap improperly contacting ( but contacting) will cause detonation at a certain temp. The engine to miss while underway, wildly fluctuating fuel mileage, an ECU error code and the hole bike to just shut down while in motion. All this because some idiot designer puts plug caps on that are so tight no one can use them reliably, then puts them under some stupid bolted down cover for that homo-erotic modular look to the engine rocker covers???????????
FBC
Click to expand...

Frost Bite...........

I'm not saying that is your problem but my problem was close to yours and yes my bike was doing everything your bike was doing.

When I pulled the bolt and spark plug cover the plug wire appeared to be making good contact. I took a screw driver and very gently removed the plug boot from the spark plug, removed the plug and found raw gas on the plug and in the cylinder. I checked for spark, had plently, reinstalled the plug and used silicone spray on the plug boot and made sure I heard the "snap" when I reinstalled the boot on the plug. The bike has been running fine ever since.

As part of the cam and tappet upgrade and/or recall the dealer was supposed to replace the spark plug boots as well because like Wayne stated above they are known to be faulty. If you beleive your dealer has not performed the upgrade or has done less than excellent service work this could be part of the issue. My dealer showed me all of the dead parts after the cam and tappet job was completed, the dead plug boots were in the old parts box.

BTW, my hard starting issue has disappeared since I performed the 6K service this past weekend. I have not had a chance to take it to my dealer to get the TPS checked or the TB Sync so it must have been the valves being out of adjustment, they were very, very loose.

I know you are frustrated, I would be as well, have a cold one and clear your head. There are some good people on this site attempting to assist with your issues but you need to respond to the inquires with a clear head to get a helpful response.
 
Kwn: The more I learn about this bike the more I think that there are design aspects of it that are genuinely foolish, If what you are telling me is the cause of this shit show, the bike will go. That is a moronic design and not what I had in mind for a motorcycle. If I have to check to make sure a mechanic has seated plug caps properly, so that he doesn't disable the ECU and strand me in god knows where on my so called "Adventure Bike" No thanks ,I'm good. Yes there are some good people on this site, There are also some , nevermind it isn't worth the fuss. Thank you for your input. Ultimately I didn't by a new bike to have it act like a 10 yr. old one with 100,000k on it. I will deal with my mess.
FBC
 
FBC - sorry to hear your misadventure has gotten worse. I'm not surprised the dealer hasn't rectified the problem - as I mentioned to you when we met for a coffee earlier this summer, my experiences with the dealer network here in Toronto has been absolutely shameful. I had to resort to doing my own repair (under warranty) when these clowns couldn't get it right. I've had no issues with my 2v Griso since then and will not be going there again. The warranty expires at the end of this month anyway.

What you do with the Stelvio is a tough call. Only you know the pain you've had to endure this summer. Make some more noise with the dealer, demand an entirely new bike. The sales character there talks a good game....challenge him!!
 
FrostBittenCanadian wrote:
Kwn: The more I learn about this bike the more I think that there are design aspects of it that are genuinely foolish
Click to expand...

I was going to ask if the Stelvio was your 1st Italian bike, but then the image below floated up in my mind...

honda%20dn-01.jpg
 
FrostBittenCanadian wrote:
Kwn: The more I learn about this bike the more I think that there are design aspects of it that are genuinely foolish, If what you are telling me is the cause of this shit show, the bike will go. That is a moronic design and not what I had in mind for a motorcycle. If I have to check to make sure a mechanic has seated plug caps properly, so that he doesn't disable the ECU and strand me in god knows where on my so called "Adventure Bike" No thanks ,I'm good. Yes there are some good people on this site, There are also some , nevermind it isn't worth the fuss. Thank you for your input. Ultimately I didn't by a new bike to have it act like a 10 yr. old one with 100,000k on it. I will deal with my mess.
FBC
Click to expand...

Frosty......

I have been riding & wrenching for well over 45 yrs, back in the 70's when the invention of the resistor spark plug came about so us bikers won't interfear with the cages radio it was very common for the spark plug wire/boot to blow off the plug. If you wore a good set of gloves you would reach down and snap it back on while riding down the road, otherwisw you would have to stop and repair the problem on the side of the road. So this problem isn't new to Guzzi or any other brand it is just a fact of life.

Also in the 2 stroke days you would pull the plug boot loose and just sit it on the top of the plug to burn off the oil of a fouled plug, that little bit of space made for a hotter spark.

Todays designers want to make everything look smooth and sleek, hence you have to remove the MG rubber plug, take out the 3mm allen and use a screw driver to gentle pry the boot loose so it can be reset properly.

Might I suggest you trade in or purchase a 60's vintage BSA or Trimuph 650, the plugs can be accessed while sitting in the saddle riding the bike. You might want to fit the bike with a travel trunk though to carry the oil you will need because of all the leakage. When thoses bikes were imported to the USA in a crate there was a steel catch pan installed in the crate to catch the oil as it dripped out of the cases.

Yes you have had problems, but your issues have not been as sever as Honda had with the Goldwings (frames breaking while hitting a bump) or BMW's final drives catching fire and the bike BBQ on the side of the road or the plastic gas tank on my 95 GS springing a leak and the fuel dripping on the motor and me and the bike caught fire. That happened under warranty with 7K miles on the bike.

The Stelvio and its 1200 4 valve motor are new to the market and you should expect some growing pains IMHO. We have all had them to one degree or another, it just sounds like your dealer/importer/mechanic doesn't give a f*#k.
 
FrostBittenCanadian wrote:
So let me get this straight, you guys are telling me that a spark plug cap improperly contacting ( but contacting) will cause detonation at a certain temp. The engine to miss while underway, wildly fluctuating fuel mileage, an ECU error code and the hole bike to just shut down while in motion. All this because some idiot designer puts plug caps on that are so tight no one can use them reliably, then puts them under some stupid bolted down cover for that homo-erotic modular look to the engine rocker covers???????????
FBC
Click to expand...
Yes, it can.

My 1200 Sport had a simple short-circuit in one of the front left connectors. It caused the alternator (what?, the alternator? Yes, the alternator) to stop working and thus the bike started to feed from the battery for the ignition. The alternator is fine. It's always been.
The first symptoms (these are cool, check them out) were that my rear lights went out. After a while the whole gauge cluster started to flicker and all the icons took turns to go on and off in random sequences. Finally the whole cluster went black.
In the meantime the engine worked so-so, sometimes fine sometimes like a TDI car with a broken turbo.
When the battery finally gave up I had to call to the insurance and be towed to the workshop.

Was all that caused by a SINGLE SHORTCIRCUIT in a connector? Yes, it was.

So, again, some plug caps are badly isolated and the spark will contact with the cylinder head instead of going to where it's supposed to go. Something that simple CAN CAUSE ALL THAT NIGHTMARE.

Check them out if you want. If you don't MY bike will still run fine ;)
 
Hmmm, you have a gift to bring out the best in some of us, FBC ... and that does bring a laugh to my face ;)

FBC
 
FrostBittenCanadian wrote:
If I have to check to make sure a mechanic has seated plug caps properly, so that he doesn't disable the ECU and strand me in god knows where on my so called "Adventure Bike" No thanks ,I'm good.
Click to expand...

There was a problem with the plug caps. They were SUPPOSED to be replaced with the cam recall. They were included with the kit.

What happens is complex. The original caps can get damaged. You get an arc over to the head. That misfire sends out raw fuel and causes a rich mixture to be seen by the O2 sensor. The O2 sensor instructs the ECU to lean out. (sorry, the O2 sensor is a fact of life now) The lean mixture causes detonation and other nasties for the good cylinder and for intermittent one. Yet the occasional raw fuel from the misfire indicates it is still too rich so that is soon followed by ECU errors and shutdown.

Remove the single screw in the cap over the plug wire. Verify they are seated. Leave the caps off and look for arcing too.

In the end, your dealer sounds pretty bad. If you can't find a dealer or don't want to manage it yourself, you will always hate it.
 
Wayne: I presume you meant to say that the misfire causes injected fuel to remain unburned (and then get sucked into the exhaust system, where I guess it would cause popping)?
 
RJVB wrote:
Wayne: I presume you meant to say that the misfire causes injected fuel to remain unburned (and then get sucked into the exhaust system, where I guess it would cause popping)?
Click to expand...

The unburned fuel confuses the O2 sensor, it sees too much fuel. So the ECU leans the mixture causing misfiring and popping. It goes downhill from there. So a simple poor spark can lead to detonation and ECU errors. Pull a spark plug wire on any modern car and you will soon get an ECU/check engine error. But with a few extra cylinders you may not notice much drive-ability issues. You lean out the remaining good cylinder on a twin like a Guzzi, and you have problems.

You need a nearly perfect ignition with O2 sensors and cat converters. Probably part of the reason for the 'unobtainium' spark plugs.

BTW, if you pull those plug caps, put a heavy cord on them and put some silicone grease on them, to help get them off the next time.
 
Yeah well I don't have much of a sense of humour boys, When a bike shuts down as you pull into traffic leaving you sitting there with your better half on the back sitting there like a big meat target for the oncoming on a 20,000 dollar lump of immobile shit!Never had any vehicle in my life shut down because of a loose plug cap, From huge v8s to twin cylinder 450 cc motorcycles. Seems a mite retarded to me and inherently dangerous!
FBC
 
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