High oil consumtion on my new Norge????

[Speedy]

I now have 3000 kms on the norge ( 2008 model) , already it has gone through 1 litre of engine oil.
While riding the Norge, I pull out to pass a motorist, I noticed a lot of blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. This was @ apx 1200-1300 kms mark ( bike was just serviced at dealer).
I pulled over and emmidiatly thought to check the drain tube from the air filter box, it was full of oil, I drained about a cup full of clear, clean oil from this tube, I also decided to leave the stopper plug out of the bottom to allow it to drain and not accumulate in the air box.
Now when I pull over and stop the engine, oil will drip out and form a pool onto the ground, so I am loosing quite a bit which is causing me to be concerned. So much so that I added 1 litre of oil at the 2500 km mark, So this is averaging out to be roughly 1 litre per 1500 kms. Not good. I'll try to contact my dealer next week,I still have 900 kms to get home tomorrow, hope that I don't blow the engine.

Any Ideas anyone, this seems abnormally high.


Forgot to mention, there is a picture of a wrench icon that stays on when the key is turned on and or bike is running. ( it is on the main display).

 

[Zipster]

Get it back into the dealer. My 07 uses practically zero oil and never more than a drop or two in the drainage tube.

 

[azccj]

I have never had to add oil to my Norge between oil changes, 6250 miles intervals. It does use oil, but not that much, and I still get a bit of oil collecting in the oil drain tube but nothing worth worrying about. My spark plugs were oil free and almost white when I pulled them out during the last service, so I would guess most of the oil that the engine uses is what is collecting in, and then drained from the drain tube. I'd advise against leaving the drain tube plug out and driving around. Not only will it make a mess on the back half of your bike, the drain tube leads right to the air box and without the plug installed, unfiltered air will be drawn into the engine throttle body intakes.

 

[john zibell]

Speedy,

It sounds like you are getting blow by at the rings causing excessive crankcase pressure and plowing your oil out. You may have a ring failure, or they never seated properly. Have you dealer check it out fully to include a leak down test.

I'm not a big fan of synthetic oil in a new engine. I use old dino oil (castrol gtx) for about 6K miles (changing at 3K) just to get the rings seated. After that, I use only full synthetic.

 

[Speedy]

john zibell wrote:

Speedy,

It sounds like you are getting blow by at the rings causing excessive crankcase pressure and plowing your oil out. You may have a ring failure, or they never seated properly. Have you dealer check it out fully to include a leak down test.

I'm not a big fan of synthetic oil in a new engine. I use old dino oil (castrol gtx) for about 6K miles (changing at 3K) just to get the rings seated. After that, I use only full synthetic.

Thanks for the info John, I am still using good old dino oil in it at the moment. The bike was a dealer demo with around 600 kms on it, so who knows how it was broken in. The engine seems to produce adequate power, especially between 5000-6000 rpms, it seems to get the oil accumilation when I lug along at around 3-4000 rpm, then when I crack open the throttle ( as when passing a vehical) that is when I see a large puff of smoke out from the exhaust, not to mention the large amount of oil accumulating in the clear tube coming out from the air box.

So if as you have suggested, the rings may have not properly seated, would this mean a new ring job? Or could the engine be driven hard to possible re-seat the rings?

 

[ncassidy]

It is very important to not over fill the oil in a Guzzi engine. Blueish smoke out the tail pipe means you are getting oil in the cylinder, which could be caused by bad rings or worn valve guides, but with only 6200 kilometers on the motor it does not make a lot of sense to be the guides. I would first drain the oil you have in it and replace with the proper amount. I believe the new Guzzi motors come with synthetic oil in them. I run synthetic in mine and have from day one and use no oil. I have 20,000 kilometers on mine. If the problem persists after the oil change then the dealer should take it from there.

 

[Speedy]

ncassidy wrote:

It is very important to not over fill the oil in a Guzzi engine. Blueish smoke out the tail pipe means you are getting oil in the cylinder, which could be caused by bad rings or worn valve guides, but with only 6200 kilometers on the motor it does not make a lot of sense to be the guides. I would first drain the oil you have in it and replace with the proper amount. I believe the new Guzzi motors come with synthetic oil in them. I run synthetic in mine and have from day one and use no oil. I have 20,000 kilometers on mine. If the problem persists after the oil change then the dealer should take it from there.

I only have 3000 kms on the engine, the dealer replaced the oil @ 1000 kms service ( non synthetic oil, but a hi quality motorcycle engine oil). The smoke only comes out of the exhaust after riding at a lower rpm, then throttleling hard, as when passing to overtake a vehical, it does not constantly smoke ( as in a bad valve guides). The oil level was correct when I picked up the Norge from the dealer, so I know that it is not over filled. I seem to be loosing most of the oil throught the breather tube coming from the air box. To me this would indicate "blow by" but I am uncertain as to what would cause a blow by condition on a new engine.
I did run the bike for about 1500 kms with the plug removed from the breather tube, but re-installed it as recomended by one of the above posts. I have to head home in the morning (900 kms trip) so I will monitor the oil consumption and see if it is still high. I dont know if this oil in the air breaher box will harm the air filter ( cause a hole to form in the element) thus allowing dirt to enter the engine, unfortunately for me, it is calling for rain all day tomorrow, so dust should be of little concern.
Speedy

 

[draidt]

For the life of me I don't understand how an authorized "Dealer" would put in anything else but the specified oil which is 10w60 4T Synthetic Racing oil . Whatever the brand and there are a few out there. It was a demo that's why he did it to say himself some money. I wonder if that would invalidate the warranty ? That motor was either abused to the max from some who didn't care as he wasn't going to buy It or not broken in properly and was over babied. Might I suggest a lot of heavy engine braking 2nd and 3rd gear stuff to try to seat the rings if that's what it is. Sorry if I offend with my straight talk, My Norge never required any oil being added to it. I followed break in procedures with a little cheating thrown in for 300 miles, dumped the oil and filter, refilled with the required oil then rode it like I stole it but not abusing it.

 

[Brian UK]

If the sump is overfilled you will get a lot of oil in the air box.
This oil will not harm the filter in that no dirt will get through it, as all the oil is on the downwind side, after the filter. However, in my experience, this oil will clog the filter somewhat, so a new filter element might well be needed when you get it to the dealer.

 

[GrahamNZ]

Agreed that dealers should use the recommended oil only.

Agreed also that pussy-footing a new bike is likely to cause more troubles than benefits. IMHO modern, powerful bikes need to be ridden HARDER during running-in than they may be later on. On the way home on my Breva it touched up to 160km/h briefly a few times and we both loved it.

As a rule of thumb, consumption up to one litre/ 10,000km in an aircooled big twin is OK to me. Both my current bikes are using more like half that. Weren't pussy-footed initially too.

Same goes for running-in new brakes. Repeated firm almost-stops with a short cooling period between is the way I do that. Avoids glazing and brings the brakes up to full performance quickly.

 

[azccj]

[/quote]

I dont know if this oil in the air breaher box will harm the air filter ( cause a hole to form in the element) thus allowing dirt to enter the engine, unfortunately for me, it is calling for rain all day tomorrow, so dust should be of little concern.
Speedy[/quote]

Prior to changing out the air filter in my Norge last week I had the same concern with oil possibly getting all over the air filter from the crankcase breather hose. I've had other bikes where this was a problem. But after getting the Norge's air box apart I discovered that I had nothing to worry about. The filter sits high above and forward of the throttle body intakes. My filter almost looked like new and had not a drop of oil on it.

 

[Speedy]

Well I rolled into Fort Mac, Alberta earlier this evening, returning from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Roughly about 900 km ride one way,( in 30 km winds gusting to 50+ km, mixed with rain too). Before leaving Saskatoon this morning, I re-installed the plug onto the drain tube coming from the air filter box. I also checked the oil level ( roughly at the 3/4 mark on the dip stick). Driving into this headwind for almost 10 hours, I left the Norge in 5th gear, cruising at around 120-130 kms/hr. This brought the rpm up to 5000-5500, giving the Norge a good work out, I figured that this should either set the rings or blow the engine! :S
I fueled up in North Battleford, Sask, check the oil ( still @ 3/4 mark on the stick, pulled the plug from the drain tube to see what would come out. I got about 2 teaspoons of creamy sludge and that was it. So I installed the plug and continued on. Again after fueling up in Lloydminster, Alberta, oil lever the same and about 1 teaspoon of creamy oil from the drain tube. Off I go again. Next stop, LacLaBiche,Alberta for fuel. Oil level the same as before and again about a teaspoon of creamy oil from the drain tube. arrived in Fort McMurray, Alberta, checked oil, same as before (3/4 on dip stick), about a teaspoon of creamy oil from drain tube.

So the engine did not blow up or seize ( good thing). Nor did I use any more oil or loose any from the drain tube, I also did not notice any blue smoke coming from the exhaust, but with the high winds and driving rain, it would have been near impossible to see that anyway.

Funny thing is, this is exactly how the Norge was before the first service, That is, the drain tube had some creamy colored oil in it, about a teaspoon or so, and oil consumption was nil. I did check the oil level after the dealer did the first service and it was at the correct level ( just at the top of the notch on the dip stick).:blink:

Did a ring stick while driving it in low rpms? Did driving the engine under a good load ( strong cross and head winds) and keeping the rpms at the top end of the range unstick a ring??
I am glad that this issue seamed to have resolved itself, but I am going on a 5000 km trip in 2 weeks and would really hate to have it happen all over again. Tomorrow I will contact my dealer and file a report of my findings

So I need to thank every one for their input and ideas, all very valid and insightful too, but I am still unsure as to what would have caused this to have happened.

Cheers, SpeedyB)

 

[Speedy]

Thanks I didn't have time to take everything apart just to see the filter, now I know
Speedy

 

[Speedy]

Hi Graham, I know that I was guilty of driving the Norge too easily, after it's initial break in period. I am used to my old Yamaha 1700 V-Twin which likes to lope along at low rpms. I now realize that the Norge is really happiest in the 5000 rpm range. The last 900 km verified that.

 

[GrahamNZ]

Speedy

Great news and great report. Inside an engine is as hot as Hell, so giving it Hell is what it likes!

That drool in the airbox drain is common when running in cold conditions. It's also why running the vent from the oil separator to a "catch can" is a good idea, as some have done here. My Buell has a catch can fitted, and while I never get drool from it, a surprisingly large amount of slightly oily water gets collected, which I drain after every second fuel refill. Very cold conditions don't occur here often, so only what looks like dirty oil comes from the Breva's airbox drain tube - about a tablespoonful every 1,000km.

 

[michaudr]

14000 Km to Alaska and back and about 3/4 f liter of oil consumed. Runining Mobil 20-50 on the Norge. Your break in period should see consumpution of about 1/2 to 3/4 of a liter oil. Not sure why your dealer went from 10-60 to non syntec.
Bring the bike around if your concerned.

Ron

 

[michaudr]

If you remember one of my first post to you and the lack of Guzzi knowledge in the local dealers. I have filters here and oil if you wish to correct your issues. If your blowing oil past the rings which Ihighly doubt we can pull the plugs to confirm. Your breather line may be constricted or pinched we can also have a look. Let me know.

Ron

 

[Speedy]

Well I just returned from a 6400 kms trip to the west coast of British Columbia, Canada.
The Norge held up well, tires got a good work out on their sides ( rather than the center which happens out on the prairies). Oil consumption was nil for 14 days, just a little slime in the drain tube.
However on the last 2 days of travel, she went through 3/4 of a litre of oil in apx 1200 kms. She is not burning the oil, but rather it is filling up the drain tube rather quickly, about every 200 kms I pull out the drain stop and get quite a puddle of oil out of it ( roughly half of the drain tube is full of oil, with no slime ot sludge in it)
I am running the engine between 5000-55000 rpm, which I did for the whole 16 days of my trip. So now I am really puzzled with this issue. :huh:
I am running Mobile 1 V-Twin Synthetic 20w-50 ( which seems to be the heaviest weight oil availible in this part of Canada. Another fellow Norge owner is running the same oil with no issue.

Speedy