How important was "made in Italy" to you?

[Sannio]

If a Guzzi I wanted were made and assembled anywhere but in Italy, I would not buy it. I accept that components and electronics are sourced internationally. I am happy knowing that designers and engineers are of any origin. This goes for all Italian-brand motorbikes. Suppose company ownership of a brand leaves Italy but the marque is still manufactured in an Italian factory. In that case, I must feel the fiz for a particular model to buy it. An "Italian motorcycle" is a regionally born cultural artifact birthed by passionate and beautifully imperfect people of Italic lineage.

 

[Tebax]

I am wary of disagreeing with Scott -- at least on any subject involving automotive or culinary subjects, and the list is likely longer, too -- but we had a 2020 Honda Fit that was made in Mexico. That car was flawless in fit, finish, and all mechanical aspects during the three-plus years and 50K+ miles we owned it.

The same with its stablemate -- a 2009 Fit made in Japan -- which we still have, that sports an odo with almost 300K miles . An asshat turned in front of Kathi in Erie last September in a 90-mph closing speed crash that totaled it or it would sit outside in N.C. where we are are house-, dog-, an cat-sitting instead of the CR-V that replaced it.

That last is a very fine car, but if Honda still sold the Fit in the NA market, we'd have replaced it with another. Sadly,the 6th-gen Fit is only sold in Asia and Europe as the "Jazz." Honda still makes the HR-V and other models of cars and motorcycles in Mexico. I would not hesitate to buy a Honda assembled there.

Still, my favorite of the many cars in my past was -- surprise -- made in Italy: a 1976 Fiat 131.

Bought it in Virginia; shipped it to Italy , drove it there and all over western Europe for tree years, brought it back to the U.S.; sold it with 215K miles for a larger car need for our larger family. Great machine.

Bill

I thought the Honda car was named Fitta?
Anyhow, the European name is apparently Jazz.
Although I thought it was just in Sweden it was called Jazz.
Because in Sweden the name Fitta is equivalent to the English under the belt word “female/cat thingy”

 

[Tebax]

If a Guzzi I wanted were made and assembled anywhere but in Italy, I would not buy it. I accept that components and electronics are sourced internationally. I am happy knowing that designers and engineers are of any origin. This goes for all Italian-brand motorbikes. Suppose company ownership of a brand leaves Italy but the marque is still manufactured in an Italian factory. In that case, I must feel the fiz for a particular model to buy it. An "Italian motorcycle" is a regionally born cultural artifact birthed by passionate and beautifully imperfect people of Italic lineage.

I have owned an Alfa Romeo 156 (2001)a decade-ish ago.
A neighbor commented it when looking closer to it:
“It is not reliable with its Italian electrical system” he said.
I replied:
“Well, yes, Alfa Romeo have asked the world wide used manufacturer Bosch specifically to build in flaws in parts they deliver to Alfa Romeo”.

All electrical parts for motor managing system was Bosch made in that generation…
Electrical motors like for wind shield wipers etc are same parts used for many other brands.
I had also a Fiat Stilo of same early millennium generation, with an unusual semi stiff (oil filled) rear axel bushings.
It seemed quirky to me at first, but then I found out that the exact same design was used in the VW Golf same time or just a few years before.
Well, people like to spill their guts on smaller brands, especially on Italian brands…
Granted AR had some rust buckets in the 60’s and 70’s, but my AR 156 was considered mid range in safety, rust resistance, and reliability from the government reports. So a car with average reliability, but both a good looking and good driver car.

As I am a first time MG owner I am not worried one bit with my choice, nor do I have reasons for it.
MG uses top end parts for the new V100 in respect the electrical management system, brakes and suspension.
And they are the most experienced manufacturer with regards to drive shafts on motorcycles I imagine as it’s their signum next to the engine V configuration.

 

[South Westerly]

Yep it was the Jazz in the UK as well. Also had an Alfa Romeo back in the early 90's and it was a nice car to drive. Totally reliable and its Bosch electronics were fine. It never rusted and we did over 90000 miles in it.

 

[Sannio]

As for motorbikes:

 

[Sannio]

Sharing today's Italian heritage motorcycle brand research through AI. You probably know this stuff but I wanted a clear picture as I zone on my shortlist of finalists.

Ducati​

• Manufacturing Location: Bologna, Italy
• Owner: Ducati Motor Holding S.p.A.
• Ownership Percentages: 100% Audi AG
• Parent Company: Audi AG
• Country of Primary Ownership: Germany (part of Volkswagen Group)

Aprilia​

• Manufacturing Location: Noale and Scorzè, Italy
• Owner: Piaggio & C. SpA
• Ownership Percentages: 100% Piaggio Group
• Parent Company: Piaggio Group
• Country of Primary Ownership: Italy

Moto Guzzi​

• Manufacturing Location: Mandello del Lario, Italy
• Owner: Piaggio & C. SpA
• Ownership Percentages: 100% Piaggio Group
• Parent Company: Piaggio Group
• Country of Primary Ownership: Italy

MV Agusta​

• Manufacturing Location: Varese, Italy
• Owner: MV Agusta Motor S.p.A.
• Ownership Percentages: 75% ComSar Invest, 25.1% KTM AG
• Parent Companies: ComSar Invest (75%) and KTM AG (25.1%)
• Country of Primary Ownership: Russia (ComSar Invest) and Austria (KTM AG)

Benelli​

• Manufacturing Location: Pesaro, Italy
• Owner: Qianjiang Group
• Ownership Percentages: 100% Qianjiang Group
• Parent Company: Geely Holding Group
• Country of Primary Ownership: China

Bimota​

• Manufacturing Location: Rimini, Italy
• Owner: Kawasaki Heavy Industries (49.9% stake)
• Ownership Percentages: 49.9% Kawasaki Heavy Industries
• Parent Company: Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Ltd.
• Country of Primary Ownership: Japan

Cagiva​

• Manufacturing Location: Varese, Italy (historical; current status is largely dormant as a brand)
• Owner: MV Agusta Motor S.p.A.
• Ownership Percentages: 75% ComSar Invest, 25.1% KTM AG
• Parent Companies: ComSar Invest (75%) and KTM AG (25.1%)
• Country of Primary Ownership: Russia (ComSar Invest) and Austria (KTM AG)

 

[tobinh]

I don't care in the slightest... I really only care that the workers are paid and treated well, and the company in question has real roots to their home and is a good corporate citizen.

That seems to describe Moto Guzzi, so I'm a fan. Maybe it describes some Chinese or Indian companies, I don't know. I don't feel much need to buy any other kind of motorbike, so I'm not spending a lot of time investigating!

 

[Sannio]

I don't care in the slightest... I really only care that the workers are paid and treated well, and the company in question has real roots to their home and is a good corporate citizen.

That seems to describe Moto Guzzi, so I'm a fan. Maybe it describes some Chinese or Indian companies, I don't know. I don't feel much need to buy any other kind of motorbike, so I'm not spending a lot of time investigating!

I appreciate the added depth by introducing the importance of ethical considerations and responsible corporate behavior. I respect the broadening criteria for brand loyalty beyond the assembly location. It leads me to challenge deeply held beliefs regarding brand loyalists placing on the significance of manufacturing origins.

Curiosity has me by the tail. If Moto Guzzi were to shift its manufacturing to a different country but maintained the same ethical standards, worker treatment, and corporate citizenship, would you still remain loyal to the brand, or does the location of assembly still hold significant value for you?

 

[South Westerly]

I'm not interested in anything made in China on principle.

 

[tobinh]

I appreciate the added depth by introducing the importance of ethical considerations and responsible corporate behavior. I respect the broadening criteria for brand loyalty beyond the assembly location. It leads me to challenge deeply held beliefs regarding brand loyalists placing on the significance of manufacturing origins.

Curiosity has me by the tail. If Moto Guzzi were to shift its manufacturing to a different country but maintained the same ethical standards, worker treatment, and corporate citizenship, would you still remain loyal to the brand, or does the location of assembly still hold significant value for you?

maybe I would remain loyal, but the reason companies change location is almost always to save money on labour. that would likely be disqualifying for me immediately. I don't want to see a bunch of nice mandello folks out of work!

if our economic system is to justify itself, companies should provide stable employment and good wages, profit is not enough - for me, anyway. chasing labour costs is just wholly incompatible with that. I want to buy stuff from companies employing workers who can reasonably expect to put their kids through college. to me, that is what a healthy society looks like and I will support companies who support that vision when I am able. my leathers are from Vanson, boots from Gaerne, helmet from Arai, etc. - all companies who make good stuff and pay reasonable wages in good conditions. I mean, as far as my knowledge of these things goes, there is a limit to the amount of research I'm willing to do!

the lines on a map are waayyy down the list of things I care about. even if some government is doing something awful, the people working at the motorbike factory are rarely to blame!

 

[Sannio]

@tobinh ...thanks for sharing your views.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Italy is VERY DIFFERENT from the United States.

Moto Guzzi by law, may not just up and move production because they would make more money.

Any significant business modification like that would require government approval and that is never going to happen. It would economically devastate Mandello del Lario.

Human beings have ultimate value and consideration in Italy.

Not everyplace in the world runs on the unrestrained greed of American capitalism.

Thank God.