My '80 LM II won't charge. Where should I look next, after checking my rotor, changing the diode plate, changing the voltage regulator with new items? I have continuity in the 3 yellow wires from the stator, I have a good charging light filiment, good brushes and springs, but I can't find any voltage at the brush from the wire that comes from the voltage regulator although there's continuity. All my connections seem real nice, clean, slightly lubed, and with re-tensioned spade connectors. The battery, when I last started the machine 2 nights ago, had ~12.2 Volts only. Wouldn't that be enough in order to get the required voltage up to the slip ring? I may just run all new wires throughout the charging system next to try and get charging. I revved it up to 6 grand, and nothing was going back to the battery. The ignition was just running off the battery. Woe is me, I'm supposed to blow town on the bike Friday morning! John Z or anybody with Bosch alternator smarts, could you tell me where to look next? Thanks in advance any/everybody!
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LM II Charging system problem
- Thread starter Gordo
- Start date
Supaflee
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Gordo , read my post about leaking voltage from battery earth .
I've just about gone nuts over this , but today have had another breakthrough . Most of the wiring in my Panel is the same colour ,,WHITE . It's all ben replaced from the huge plug under the tank, up to the panel , to accomodate an early model Lemans instrument cluster. Wow what a mission .
At some time its all been reconnected in the wrong way .
Today I finally got an oil pressure warning light to go .
Tomorrow maybe a charging lamp ,,,,, we'll see .
I'll keep you informed .
OJ and John Zebell are awsome helpers with these problems , they're probably resting , because they'll be buggered after dealing with my continual problems .
Best regards
Supaflee.
I dont want to be a know it all , but , have you tested the charging bulb itself for continuity.??
I've just about gone nuts over this , but today have had another breakthrough . Most of the wiring in my Panel is the same colour ,,WHITE . It's all ben replaced from the huge plug under the tank, up to the panel , to accomodate an early model Lemans instrument cluster. Wow what a mission .
At some time its all been reconnected in the wrong way .
Today I finally got an oil pressure warning light to go .
Tomorrow maybe a charging lamp ,,,,, we'll see .
I'll keep you informed .
OJ and John Zebell are awsome helpers with these problems , they're probably resting , because they'll be buggered after dealing with my continual problems .
Best regards
Supaflee.
I dont want to be a know it all , but , have you tested the charging bulb itself for continuity.??
OldJock
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi Gordo
12.2 Volts should easily be enough to get the generator going, or flashed as the terminology goes.
If you are measuring voltage from the DF brush to frame the voltage will be small I reckon somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5 Volts, nearly all the volts will be dropped through the bulb.
Does the charge light go on when you switch on the ignition and go out when revs are above 1500 rpm? No light illumination at ignition On means no flashing, means the charge system cannot start.
The generator should also have a wire from the regulator DF to the generator DF and a wire going from Y on the generator to MP on the rectifier. Your 3 yellow wires go from generator to WVU on rectifier, any order. Check the connections to them are good and not dirty or broken, especially at that plug on the generator which can be prone to corrosion and breaking. Check the ground on the regulator is good and the battery ground too.
Stolen from John Zibell, is a quick way to test the generator/regulator is to short DF to D+, with engine at low revs circa 2k I guess, this will put a full field onto the stator and overvoltage the system. Keep lights off and do for a very short duration. If you do that and charging light goes out, or you measure a large voltage at the battery, then its the regulator. I would set it all up first, then do that test for only a few seconds, but it should tell you if generator or regulator are suspect.
If nothing then its the generator and you need to check stator and rotor resistance
I'd start with making sure the charge warn light is coming on when you switch on the ignition, without that you are dead in the water.
John
12.2 Volts should easily be enough to get the generator going, or flashed as the terminology goes.
If you are measuring voltage from the DF brush to frame the voltage will be small I reckon somewhere between 0.25 and 0.5 Volts, nearly all the volts will be dropped through the bulb.
Does the charge light go on when you switch on the ignition and go out when revs are above 1500 rpm? No light illumination at ignition On means no flashing, means the charge system cannot start.
The generator should also have a wire from the regulator DF to the generator DF and a wire going from Y on the generator to MP on the rectifier. Your 3 yellow wires go from generator to WVU on rectifier, any order. Check the connections to them are good and not dirty or broken, especially at that plug on the generator which can be prone to corrosion and breaking. Check the ground on the regulator is good and the battery ground too.
Stolen from John Zibell, is a quick way to test the generator/regulator is to short DF to D+, with engine at low revs circa 2k I guess, this will put a full field onto the stator and overvoltage the system. Keep lights off and do for a very short duration. If you do that and charging light goes out, or you measure a large voltage at the battery, then its the regulator. I would set it all up first, then do that test for only a few seconds, but it should tell you if generator or regulator are suspect.
If nothing then its the generator and you need to check stator and rotor resistance
I'd start with making sure the charge warn light is coming on when you switch on the ignition, without that you are dead in the water.
John
To check for voltage at the brushes, remove the wire from the brush contact and read the wire. With the key on, you should have system voltage (regulator should be OK). With a brush lifted in the holder, check the resistance between the two slip rings on the rotor. Resistance should be around 6.9 ohms, if an open circuit (usual fail mode) the rotor is bad. Also check resistance between the winding of the stator. There should be 0.62 ohms between the windings, if near zero the windings of the stator need to be replaced (http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/produc ... tor105.htm). If necessary, remove the stator and clean the rings of the rotor with carb cleaner or gasoline. If still dirty, you may use a glass based sand paper to clean the rings, do not use emery cloth.
OldJock
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Gordo
To avoid any confusion between my post and John Zibell's
John Z's method is simpler and clearer, when I was referring to the 0.25-0.5 V at the same point, that is what you would get if you did not remove the wire from the generator lug and just measured it in situ, with the ignition on.
Of course if you take the wire off the generator at the DF connection and the ignition on, then the "Charge Warn" bulb on the dash will go out and you will get full battery voltage at the wire with the other side to the frame, if everything is Ok. As I remember its a purple wire.
If you are using a small low wattage test light as opposed to a Voltmeter, then both the "Charge Warn" and your test bulb will light but dimly, if its Ok.
Small digital Multimeters are very reasonably priced these days and extremely useful
John
To avoid any confusion between my post and John Zibell's
John Z's method is simpler and clearer, when I was referring to the 0.25-0.5 V at the same point, that is what you would get if you did not remove the wire from the generator lug and just measured it in situ, with the ignition on.
Of course if you take the wire off the generator at the DF connection and the ignition on, then the "Charge Warn" bulb on the dash will go out and you will get full battery voltage at the wire with the other side to the frame, if everything is Ok. As I remember its a purple wire.
If you are using a small low wattage test light as opposed to a Voltmeter, then both the "Charge Warn" and your test bulb will light but dimly, if its Ok.
Small digital Multimeters are very reasonably priced these days and extremely useful
John
Okay, I have the .62 ohms between all the stator windings. With the brushes shimmed away, there's .3 ohms between the slip rings, and with just the one brush pulled away there's around 6.9 ohms to the ground tab of the other brush. I have 10.3 VDC at the field terminal on the end of the purple (brown?) wire from the regulator. When I turn the bike on. My charge light glows dimmer than the oil light, and I just used to shrug it off and guess that the bulbs were different, but maybe I'd better look into that wiring around the instruments. I don't seem to have any "leaking to ground". That is, when I clamp the meter onto the frame and clamp the other on the neg. battery post, there's no leakage to measure. I haven't started it up, but then I haven't fixed anything either. So, I'll try to start it and measure for charging at the battery tomorrow. It starts just fine, as long as I charge the battery, the alternator just isn't charging, I don't think it is anyway.
OldJock
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi Gordo
It sounds like everything is in order with the generator, from your post.
Re the charge lamp, it depends what you mean as dim. Could be the bulb is past its best and you don't get full voltage across the bulb, about 95%. However for all intensive purposes it should look as bright as the other lamps. I'd also check the bulb resistance value if you are in there to, I recall its a 1.2W so approx 120 Ohm resistance.
A final check on the generator is forcing the generator to max output for a few seconds and check to see if the light goes out and the battery terminal voltage. I posted how to do it earlier basically short D+ to DF on the regulator. If your charge warn light goes out when you do this then the fault is the regulator. Remember to keep the revs down, start at idle and just blip it up and watch the Voltage, if all is in order the light will go out at 1500 or so
If the light doesn't go out then I reckon I'd do diode checks on the rectifier and an open circuit AC Voltage on the generator by disconnecting the 3 yellow wire at the generator and measure AC voltage across each of the phases at the generator with the bike running. They should all be the same, I don't have figures but would reckon 30V AC at low rpm 2k or so and probably exceeding 50 V at higher rpms.
Also when you are doing any running checks, do it with a good fully charged battery, take the battery off and charge it with a charger before starting. A bad or partially discharged battery will affect the readings
Maybe John Z will have some other ideas
John
It sounds like everything is in order with the generator, from your post.
Re the charge lamp, it depends what you mean as dim. Could be the bulb is past its best and you don't get full voltage across the bulb, about 95%. However for all intensive purposes it should look as bright as the other lamps. I'd also check the bulb resistance value if you are in there to, I recall its a 1.2W so approx 120 Ohm resistance.
A final check on the generator is forcing the generator to max output for a few seconds and check to see if the light goes out and the battery terminal voltage. I posted how to do it earlier basically short D+ to DF on the regulator. If your charge warn light goes out when you do this then the fault is the regulator. Remember to keep the revs down, start at idle and just blip it up and watch the Voltage, if all is in order the light will go out at 1500 or so
If the light doesn't go out then I reckon I'd do diode checks on the rectifier and an open circuit AC Voltage on the generator by disconnecting the 3 yellow wire at the generator and measure AC voltage across each of the phases at the generator with the bike running. They should all be the same, I don't have figures but would reckon 30V AC at low rpm 2k or so and probably exceeding 50 V at higher rpms.
Also when you are doing any running checks, do it with a good fully charged battery, take the battery off and charge it with a charger before starting. A bad or partially discharged battery will affect the readings
Maybe John Z will have some other ideas
John
Until he starts the bike and takes more readings, there is nothing to say. Based on the info so far, she should charge unless there is a diode board or regulator failure.
My charging sometimes gets a bit iffy. Rotating the fuses helps me out .
theoneandonlymin
theoneandonlymin
I've been into the idiot light panel and pulled the charge light out, and the bulb holder fell apart. So that's what I though my problem was, why sometimes there was voltage at the purple wire for the brush and sometimes no voltage. So I got everything plugged in again, and got nearly 12 volts at the purple wire, 12.9 volts at the battery terminals. Fired it up, and with the meter on the battery terminal, there was 12.36 Volts, and when I revved it up, it never changed. I pulled one yellow wire off the stator (my triplex plug was fried and shot, so I went to 3 separate spade connectors). I got next to no AC coming off that wire. I figure it should rise into the 30-50VAC region, yes? A single phase yellow wire? So when I shut it down, I had 12.85V at the battery. It has to be the stator, doesn't it? Although I think my readings from it showed no open circuit among the windings.... I'm hooped, or else it's something simple like swapping another stator in from off the I-Convert.... I'll re-read all these posts and try my meter some more on the stator etc...
Gordo said:
Yes, sounds like stator. A BMW tech, if familiar with the airhead charging system, can take care of it for you. Good luck.
Hallelujah! It was the stator alright. Now, maybe for the fun of it, I'll meter some of those yellow wires and see what they read in AC. I used the new plastic (non-adjustable) regulator, but it charged right over 15 volts, so I put the tin one with the trim pot back in, and turned it back some... Thanks all!
Be aware that the Guzzi stator, although it is looks and fits the same - is slightly larger than the BMW version giving more power. If you can get it rewound. If you can find a 'Ye Olde Auto Electrics' shop they can rewind it for you. They are, unfortunately, becoming about as easy to find as buggy whip makers.
I honestly don't know how much difference it makes but Pete Roper mentioned it so it must be significant enough to pay attention.
Chris,
Actually the later model airhead uses a 107mm stator, where the Guzzi and older airhead BMW use the 105mm stator. See: http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Bosch- ... it-s/1.htm and the Guzzi and older BMW stator is listed on page two of this link.
Actually the later model airhead uses a 107mm stator, where the Guzzi and older airhead BMW use the 105mm stator. See: http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Bosch- ... it-s/1.htm and the Guzzi and older BMW stator is listed on page two of this link.