Mandello Oil Level

[GRD2]

Just got my bike back from the dealer after having a new engine fitted.
I asked them whether the engine came with oil or if they filled it.
They filled it with 4.9 liters.
The dip stick is showing way over full. This is exactly the same as when the bike was first delivered.
So, is the 4.9 liters incorrect?
Or is the dipstick wrong?
Or are Guzzi liters different from everyone else's?

Has anyone had any info from Moto Guzzi or a dealer on what's going on here?

 

[Kevin.NZ]

4.9Lit is the correct amount. Mine was high too when I 1st purchased it. It also came back from the dealers after the 1st service and I had to remove 600ml to get it to the correct level on the dipstick. I noticed it had "frothed up" a little, which is not good. The bike has to be upright and on a level surface, also do not screw in the dipstick when measuring.
Why did the engine need replacing?

 

[GRD2]

If 4.9 Lt. is the correct amount why do you and I have to remove 600 ml. when Moto Guzzi filled the sump and again when your dealer and mine filled it?
That's a bit too much of a coincidence for me. I also know of other bikes that appear to have been overfilled, according to the dip stick.
When I brought this up with the dealer they are adamant they only put in 4.9 Lt. the bike's going back to them to check the level. I want to hear it from the Moto Guzzi dealer, do we go by the dipstick or measured volume.

As for the engine replacement, at 624 Km the engine stopped while riding, every thing was still going around and up and down inside but no combustion. They eventually traced it to a fee wheeling pulley/wheel which had a sensor that controlled spark, or fuel injection or both.
As they couldn't find the pin that locked this on the shaft Moto Guzzi decided to replace the engine.

 

[john zibell]

I've noticed over the years that the specification Guzzi sites in manuals will over fill all of their engines. Just fill enough so that the oil level is about half way between full and add. An over full engine will, as stated above, froth the oil and you end up with oil in the air box and other places you don't want it to go. On your next change measure the amount that comes out. That will be the amount for a refill at an oil change.

 

[Kevin.NZ]

Yea when I questioned my dealer that I had to remove 600mls they too were adamant that they put the correct measured amount in. I'm going by the dipstick for the time being. If you look on the RHS of the bike you will see a casting where there used to be a oil level sight glass, you can see it on early promotional bikes, I read that "they" found out the clutch was overheating so had to increase the oil level to 4.9lit and put a dipstick on the bike. I must say 4.9 lit is a lot, my V6, 3.6Lit car only takes 4.5Lit of engine oil.

 

[Florida lime]

I've often found that the amount of oil needed after a service varies from what it says in the owner's or service manual. This doesn't apply just to Moto Guzzi, but all brands. It might require more, but usually less.
So to me, the number given is an approximate value, but the level on the dipstick or in the sight glass is the final word. Every manual tells you to verify the level based on it being between the low and high mark.
Anybody or especially any shop that just adds oil based on the listed amount is not following the manual for checking the level. That would make me doubt any work done by that mechanic

 

[JPC56]

How is the clutch lubricated?

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Hey Folks,

This is the cold hard reality.

Oil is “sticky” and they add additives to make it more “sticky” so it clings to metal surfaces.

So, if you:

1. Get your engine up to operating temperature.

2. Drain it immediately at this temperature.

3. Allow it to continue to drain for two hours+ or even better, overnight.

If you do this you will find that the specified oil quantities are in fact, quite accurate.

However…

If you do not get your oil to operating temperature before draining, and you quickly drain it and then immediately refill it, you will ALWAYS overfill it because the oil clings to the interior metal surfaces.

If you don’t think so, drain your oil quickly and then put a completely clean catch pan under the drain plug and leave it overnight. You will be shocked at how much oil is in the drain pan in the morning.

 

[Dave.N]

Get your oil up to temperature but be careful when pulling the plug, I still have the scar from 2 years ago when I didn't get my hand out of the way quick enough.

 

[Florida lime]

Hey Folks,

This is the cold hard reality.

Oil is “sticky” and they add additives to make it more “sticky” so it clings to metal surfaces.

So, if you:

1. Get your engine up to operating temperature.

2. Drain it immediately at this temperature.

3. Allow it to continue to drain for two hours+ or even better, overnight.

If you do this you will find that the specified oil quantities are in fact, quite accurate.

However…

If you do not get you oil to operating temperature before draining, and you quickly drain it and then immediately refill it, you will ALWAYS overfill it because the oil clings to the interior metal surfaces.

If you don’t think so, drain your oil quickly and then put a completely clean catch pan under the drain plug and leave it overnight. You will be shocked at how much oil is in the drain pan in the morning.

Much of what you say is correct. However I have drained the oil overnight on the V100, in addition to repeatedly tipping it side to side. It still doesn't take as much oil as the manual lists.

Neither did that new engine filled at the dealer in question.

 

[john zibell]

Get your oil up to temperature but be careful when pulling the plug, I still have the scar from 2 years ago when I didn't get my hand out of the way quick enough.

I use mechanic gloves when I do this. If a horizontal plug and there is room, a socket on an extension so I'm not near hot oil, but I still wear the gloves because of hot pipes.

 

[Vagrant]

I've only had 13 Guzzis I've the last 50 years but it's best to figure 15% less than they say. Then add slowly to the 1/2 way Mark with a very warm engine.

 

[GRD2]

I've only had 13 Guzzis I've the last 50 years but it's best to figure 15% less than they say. Then add slowly to the 1/2 way Mark with a very warm engine.

Thanks for that. sounds like a good procedure.
Only realized yesterday there was a download user manual that had more info in it than the booklet that came with the bike.
Had a bit of a laugh when I read the bit about checking oil level.
How many service techs are going to put oil in, take the bike out and ride it for 10 minutes to heat every thing up and then check the oil level.

 

[JPC56]

I have found with my car and motorcycles that the difference between hot and cold levels is very small. My V100 was just above max on delivery so I extracted a small amount to bring it to the max mark. At the first service 4.9 ltrs was added, I checked when I got home and the level was at max, I then checked next day when cold and the level was at max. I now just check oil levels when cold.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Vagrant hit the nail on the head folks. Just add SLOWLY, allowing it to drain down into the pan, and read the dipstick to verify that you have the oil level somewhere halfway between MAX and MINIMUM. That’s the best level and the best advice you can get.

Call me crazy but this is how I do the oil on all of my motorcycles. Oil changes are not a race.

Take your time. I do and I’ve never had any issues before.

 

[GRD2]

Some very good points here. Yes it does take a long time to drain oil out and heating it up helps with getting any contaminants out which otherwise may settle.
However in my case the first oil fill was factory and the second was dealer, and things were just not adding up for me. I guess I'm a bit OCD.
Any way I think I've worked out what's going on.
These are just my thoughts and assumptions, and I'm happy with them.

The light bulb clicked for me when I read the oil check procedure for the second time.
The bit that jumped out at me was, after riding the bike for at least 15 km. i.e.heating it up
"check the oil level A FEW SECONDS after shutting down the engine ". not after you've had lunch, coffee or a few minutes later.
If you do this straight away after shutting down the 4.9 liter oil capacity will show up on the dipstick at the full mark.

To try this out I got the bike upright and got the other half to check the oil level.
It was at the full mark, I had sucked out about 500 ml. after it came back from the dealer.
I started the bike up and warmed it up for a while, shut it down and checked the oil level straight away, it was at the minimum level!!!

I then put 400 ml. of the oil I had sucked out back in, repeated the warm up, shutdown and checked the level straight away.
It was at the 3/4 mark between min and max.

I'm now assuming Moto Guzzi did not modify the sump when they went from 3.5 liter to 4.9 Liter, other than deleting the window.
So if you follow the Moto Guzzi procedure to the letter you will get a max reading on the dipstick with 4.9 liters in the sump and nothing drained out because around 400ml to 500 ml of oil is in the top of the engine and hasn't found its way back down to the sump.

Why Moto Guzzi didn't put this basic procedure in their booklet but chose to put it in the download is beyond me.
I only found out there was a download 4 months after getting the bike.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

So if you follow the Moto Guzzi procedure to the letter you will get a max reading on the dipstick with 4.9 liters in the sump and nothing drained out because around 400ml to 500 ml of oil is in the top of the engine and hasn't found its way back down to the sump.

Bravo!

I’ve said it many times…

The engineers at Moto Guzzi are not a collection of wine-swigging bumpkins.

 

[Tebax]

The engineers at Moto Guzzi are not a collection of wine-swigging bumpkins.

They are not…?
I’m now so disappointed

But thanks @GRD2 for spotting this.
If so, that explains the confusion about it.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

It never ceases to amaze me just how many people absolutely refuse to read their manual.

However, if they didn’t give you one, everybody who doesn’t bother to read the damn thing in the first place, would scream bloody murder.

Don’t tell me it’s too small to see because I have written in several threads here, how you can get your manual in PDF format, direct from Moto Guzzi for free.

Manuals Motoguzzi

 

[moparnut72]

The illustrations in the printed manual are awful. The section describing the electronics is all but legible. Don't even bother with it, get the PDF version online. Much much better. I haven't thrown mine away but I should. You can also get the repair manual online for no cost. Most manufacturers don't put them in PDF format and the printed version must be purchased. Triumph only has an online version and access has to be paid for on a month to month basis.
kk