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N8V 2013 Idle Wandering and Occasional Miss Fire Questions and Descriptions of found Problems in Workmanship

Guzzi2Go

Guzzi2Go

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
May 8, 2023
Messages
46
Location
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Tune up questions at the end. I would first like to highlight some areas of potential problems with the tight fit components on the N8V.
I purchased the 2013 N8V with 45,000 km on it and only one owner and dealer serviced. 2,000 km later it is starting to idle a bit rough and wanders between 1100 and 1200 rpm, and misses occasionally when hot. I can't tell which side yet. So time for a tune up. What I found on opening things up, was miss matched external panel screws, the 5mm shoulder panel screws where the 4mm should be and vis versa, wiring re-routed on one of the injectors so that the boot cracked open, IMG 4055
no hose clamps on some the hoses and both air intake rubber boots on the throttle bodies where they insert into the air box, not properly seated, allowing grit and air to bypass the air filter. The air box was full of grit. The pics below are after I've done an initial vacuum of the inside and wiped it out once. More to clean. thats when I noticed the boots not seating properly.
IMG 4064 IMG 4065
So I've fixed those issues, replaced the plugs and air filter, next will be valve clearance check and reset, as necessary. As I don't have access to a VDSTS setup yet and there is no dealer with a 200km of where I live (Ottawa), is there anything else I can do before getting into sync and balance of intakes, TPS reset? Also, is there a correct or easy way to lift the air box out of the frame? the drain hose is not seated correctly so oil dripping down the exterior of hose instead of inside the hose. Makes a mess of everything.

Sorry for the bit of a rant, Just had to get it off my chest.
 
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Hi. Okay, you have a hot mess going on there.

First off, get the airbox sealed.

Next, wipe out all of the oil from the inside of the airbox. There should be none in there but somebody has chased the FULL mark on the oil dipstick, and this always leads to oil being blown up into the crankcase vent, and going into the airbox, where it gets sucked into the intake opening for the Stepper Motor, and gums it up, causing the exact idling issues you are mentioning. You need to spray carb cleaner into that inlet inside of the airbox, and clean out the oil gum residue which is no doubt, inside of it and affecting its operation.

Next, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to sync and balance the throttle bodies and do a TPS reset without the proper electronic tool. Make no adjustment to your throttle body linkage without this tool. You will misallign the physical and logical conditions of the motorcycle ECU and throttle relationship. The bike will run like shit!

THE VDSTS hasn’t been available for years. You need Todd’s Flash Tool sold in the STORE tab.

If you haven’t read my guide yet, you may wish to…. You will understand a great deal more…

www.guzzitech.com

Syncing Throttle Bodies- Stelvio 8V

thanks John. Maybe I can find someone with the equipment willing to help me do it here in Austin TX area. Ultimately I'll end up buying the gear. My bike has only 2800 miles so it go awhile just fine. Seems to vibrate like a Harley at idle, and remain a little rough until really smoothing...
www.guzzitech.com www.guzzitech.com
 
scottmastrocinque said:
Hi. Okay, you have a hot mess going on there.

First off, get the airbox sealed.

Next, wipe out all of the oil from the inside of the airbox. There should be none in there but somebody has chased the FULL mark on the oil dipstick, and this always leads to oil being blown up into the crankcase vent, and going into the airbox, where it gets sucked into the intake opening for the Stepper Motor, and gums it up, causing the exact idling issues you are mentioning. You need to spray carb cleaner into that inlet inside of the airbox, and clean out the oil gum residue which is no doubt, inside of it and affecting its operation.

Next, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE to sync and balance the throttle bodies and do a TPS reset without the proper electronic tool. Make no adjustment to your throttle body linkage without this tool. You will misallign the physical and logical conditions of the motorcycle ECU and throttle relationship. The bike will run like shit!

THE VDSTS hasn’t been available for years. You need Todd’s Flash Tool sold in the STORE tab.

If you haven’t read my guide yet, you may wish to…. You will understand a great deal more…

www.guzzitech.com

Syncing Throttle Bodies- Stelvio 8V

thanks John. Maybe I can find someone with the equipment willing to help me do it here in Austin TX area. Ultimately I'll end up buying the gear. My bike has only 2800 miles so it go awhile just fine. Seems to vibrate like a Harley at idle, and remain a little rough until really smoothing...
www.guzzitech.com www.guzzitech.com
Click to expand...
Scott thanks for the info on the stepper motor i hadn't thought of the using carb cleaner, I'll definitely action that. I've already drained a bit of oil from the pan. Someone was indeed chasing the max mark. Yes I have read your guide and found it very helpful. I'm just trying to get as much done as I can without the equipment needed to actually sync the throttle and reset the TPS. As I've only had the bike for a couple of weeks its been a bit of a learning curve. I've got 40 years of experience on carburetor Guzzi and other bikes but this N8V is the first fuel injected bike I've owned. It takes a bit of time to acquire the required equipment.
David
 
My Norge has the same cracked boot on the injector. Electrical tape was my fix.
With the fuel tank and air box off, now is a good time to get rid of all the evap plumbing, charcoal cannister and tip over valve. You'll find all the info on the forum.
Do yourself a huge favour and get the full GTM fueling set-up. Flash tool and Power Commander etc. I also got his cat/colostomy bag replacement pipe.
 
Raven: I'm interested. Do you do all your own maintenance, tune-ups? As I was just saying to Scott, I don't have a problem carbureted equipment, fuel injection equipment is new to me so i don't have the tools yet. I've looked at the GTM store, but not quite sure what is a must have and what is 'would be nice to have'
 
What am I, chopped liver? 😝😆😝

I own a Norge 2V and a Stelvio NTX 8V and 3 other Moto Guzzi motorcycles as well.

You will need a Flash Tool to reset the TPS. Todd (GTM) sells this in the STORE.

2 sets of feeler gauges. I recommend the long type.

Open ended wrenches to open drain plugs and adjust the valve clearances.

Socket wrench to remove the primary spark plugs and then to hand rotate the crankshaft nut in the very front of the engine to get each side to TDC before setting valves.

These are the basic tools for routine service.
 
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Yes I do all my own work on the bike.
The Flash tool is a must. You can do the TPS reset with it and Todd can load a fuel map for you that will make a huge difference in the way the bike performs. Upgrade later with the Power Commander etc. and you will be a very happy boy.
Scott, I believe he is in Ottawa.
 
scottmastrocinque said:
What am I, chopped liver? 😝😆😝

I own a Norge 2V and a Stelvio NTX 8V and 3 other Moto Guzzi motorcycles as well.

You will need a Flash Tool to reset the TPS. Todd (GTM) sells this in the STORE.

2 sets of feeler gauges. I recommend the long type.

Open ended wrenches to open drain plugs and adjust the valve clearances.

Socket wrench to remove the primary spark plugs and then to hand rotate the crankshaft nut in the very front of the engine to get each side to TDC before setting valves.

These are the basic tools for routine service.
Click to expand...
LOL :). carrying on two conversations here Scott, sorry, and Raven is right I live in Ottawa, which seems to be a bit a of a dead zone for Guzzi dealers though perhaps not for knowledgeable riders. I'm a dedicated DIYer but have never owned a fuel injected bike before. I've gone through a Triumph, BSA, Honda, Harley and an 850 T, the last I rebuild from the crank up. So I have the a fairly good set of tools but I'm trying to rap my head around doing a complete tune up on the N8V. The mechanical part of that tune up, valves, plugs, filters, timing, I'm ok with, its the throttle sync and TPS reset, etc that I haven't done before and don't have the equipment yet. As GT stores list up to six weeks for delivery of the Re-Flash, I was looking for options.

The previous owner of the N8V had a Minstrel exhaust put on and said the ECU was remapped to handle the additional flow through. My concern is that the workmanship of the other work on the bike was not great. Perhaps it would be worth a look at the mapping for the Minstrel?

So if I understand correctly I will need :
1) something to balance the throttle vacuums, either a manometer (?), which lots of people seem to have made, or something like GT Carbmate syc tool, currently on back order.
2) the GT Re-Flash 5AM/7SM to reset the TPS once the throttles have been sync'ed and adjusted. Which also lists up to six weeks for delivery. IMG 2602 IMG 4020
I've read your post on this procedure a number of times and am looking forward to putting it into practice.

David.
 
If the previous owner put a beetle map in that may be your problem. When you go for the sync tool, be sure to get an updated map from GTM for your configuration.
 
Guzzi2Go said:
Perhaps it would be worth a look at the mapping for the Minstrel?
Click to expand...

I know of no way for you to examine and edit the ECU map safely.

The commercial products and specialty software necessary to do so, are very expensive and take a great deal of training and knowledge to understand and manipulate properly.

I strongly advise you against trying to do this at all.

When the tools become available again, you’re in like Flynn. Waiting sucks but you don’t have many options in this department unfortunately.
 
scottmastrocinque said:
I know of no way for you to examine and edit the ECU map safely.

The commercial products and specialty software necessary to do so, are very expensive and take a great deal of training and knowledge to understand and manipulate properly.

I strongly advise you against trying to do this at all.

When the tools become available again, you’re in like Flynn. Waiting sucks but you don’t have many options in this department unfortunately.
Click to expand...
I agree, playing with remapping myself would not be a good idea. Using Todd's Re-Flash and GTM's service to do the remap sounds like the safest and least frustrating way to go. I would prefer to be riding as opposed to trying to figure out what I did wrong :)
 
Sounds intelligent to me.

Oh, one more thing. Your exhaust is by Mistral.

They are just down the road from the Moto Guzzi factory in Mandello del Lario.
 
OK I give up, I have to ask, is there a trick, secret, special curse words that will help put the Air Box back into place? I've tried the classic reverse the removal procedure, (never works for me); with both rubber throttle intakes installed on the air box; and one rubber intake on the throttle the other on the box. Nothing seems to work except to bend the rubber intake hose clamps all out of shape,
 

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Remove the hose clamps completely, then deform the intake rubbers as much as you need to get the airbox in place. Tilting it slightly to lower one side before the other may help. Then re-install the hose clamps. Works on my Breva, yours may differ.
 
I warm the snorkels with a hair dryer. It isn’t the fastest way to warm then up but definitely the safest. The warmer they get, the more pliable they become.
 
scottmastrocinque said:
I warm the snorkels with a hair dryer. It isn’t the fastest way to warm then up but definitely the safest. The warmer they get, the more pliable they become.
Click to expand...
I'm going to try some hot water. I was thinking of my heat gun but that might be too hot. I believe there is a hair dryer round here somewhere is the hot water does not work. Really would performance been affected that much if the airbox was made just 1/2 or 3/4 narrower? It would have make it that much easier to move around while installing it.
 
I want to thank everyone, Scott you and Raven in particular, for their advice and assistance with my airbox and throttle issues on the N8V. This morning, after warming the snorkles in hot water for one and a hair dryer the other, everything slipped into place quite nicely, with only a minimum of fuss. There is still work to be done in there, but nothing to stop my trip down east next week. Again thanks.
David
 
Hot water = YES, OK
Hair dryers = YES, OK
Heat Guns = NO!!!!!!!!! They will melt and distort almost instantly.

Yeah, those bastards are always easier when they become pliable. I‘ve installed a billion carburetors and I stopped fighting with those things years ago…Heat them up, and things pop right into place.

Glad you got it all sorted out! Congratulations!
 
So I've been ranting a bit about the previous maintenance on the 2013 N8V that I recently purchased. I've had a lot of help fixing a number of air box issues and learning the ins and outs of tuning the old girl. Well, one more rant. I've completed a valve adjustment. Found the adjuster nuts so tight it took my two hands on the 9mm box end wrench to free them! On top of that the intakes were set at .3 and the exhaust .4 MM! Someone didn't know the difference between mm and inches. sigh. Hopefully that will be it for surprises.
 
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