Norge Center Stand

[rcbimmer]

What is the best way to trim back the center stand stop? Do I need to remove it first or can it be cut back on the bike? Thanks.

 

[DanR]

rcbimmer wrote:

What is the best way to trim back the center stand stop? Do I need to remove it first or can it be cut back on the bike? Thanks.

Rich, below is a post i made on the WG Forum.

The best way is to unscrew it and cut it down with a utility knife, Use locktite when installing it. But check out the link you just might have what you need in all the little spare parts you got when you picked the bike up, At least I did when I bought it from Love's.

Any guesses as to what you are looking at ?



I am kicking myself for not realizing what could have saved a lot of concern and in some cases other Norge owners some money. Well here is the story and it is unfortunate that someone had to crash to realize this, I have been following this pole vault thread from the beginning and initially dismissed it as just a rumor. OK, some one crashed, I just got my October issue of of the MGNOC newsletter and there it is in black and white on page 4 blaming the center stand and the failure of the now defunct dealer to install the proper bumper for the Norge when equipped with the panniers. This is the first I had heard of a " different " bumper. I took it with a grain of salt and dismissed it until remembered that when I got my Norge I found a Ziploc bag in one of the panniers with a few odd rubber parts in it and was told it's left over from the mounting of the panniers at the time of setup from crate to final assembly. I dug out that bag and HOLY CRAP BATMAN lookey what I found. The bumper on the right in the picture was in that bag and the bumper on the left is the one I just took off my Norge (and it had about 3/8 of an inch cut off by me!).Whether or not it specifically the caused the accident is beyond my judgment not knowing every detail of the incident, but I am drawn to the fact that it was an off camber road.

HEADS UP all you NORGE owners and dealers. There is another bumper! whether it's supplied by Moto Guzzi on every PDI assembly package is another story. Obviously it was on mine, I consider the Tech who set up mine as a good and able mechanic and it is not out of the realm of thought that MG did not supply any instructions. He will be informed tomorrow.

Unlike the "FONZ" I will admit when I am "ww rrr oo" oh dammit WRONG.

Sorry to make this a long read but I think it's important.

 

[rcbimmer]

Thanks Dan. Have a safe ride home.

 

[xbrit]

I bought my Norge used and it had the long bumper stop on it, when I read about the stand scraping I cut the bumper in half while on the bike using a utility knife, works OK so far.

 

[RJVB]

Another thing about that centre stand, something that applies to mine at least:

it's perfectly possible to bend the tang/lever trying to get the bike up on the stand against even the slightest slope. Don't force with your weight if she doesn't come up "naturally", or you'll end up with a bike that sits on the stand's right foot, and on the lever, with the left foot a mm or so off the ground. This might have an effect on grinding during left leans, too.

 

[guzzibob]

Hmmm, I routinely use all my weight to get the bike on the centerstand, don't think I could get it up there otherwise. So far (10,000 miles, much of it long distance) no hint of a problem. As for the bump stop, I wouldn't settle for cutting the big stop down to the smaller size, or half off. Better, I cut it down to almost nothing, maybe 1/8", just enough to keep metal from hitting metal. Far more important to me to maximize ground clearance/minimize center stand grinding. Only "cost" is that with the bump stop almost gone, if the muffler is in the up position with bags removed, as I keep it when not on a long trip, my heel can touch the center stand arm, which vibrates when under way. Easy enough to just move the foot forward a hair to avoid it though, well worth it to me for the ground clearance.

 

[RJVB]

Well, yes, but there's a difference between using your weight and the bike obeying in one smooth motion, or sort of having to jump on the arm. I may be doing something wrong, but there are places on/with irregular pavement (big cobble stones) where I park often, where one really has to force to get the bike up on the stand. I may be doing something (else) wrong, but I wouldn't know what (insist on using the centre stand, maybe?)
Or would I have a stand from a bad batch? My dealer bent the arm back, but the ground clearance when deployed already went back from about 5mm to maybe 2...

 

[Cat City Rider]

René

Once a piece of metal like on your center stand is bent, it is already history, bend it back and it will only further weaken it. A welder may possibly repair it, but just straightening it out and hoping for the best will not make a lasting repair.

 

[RJVB]

In principle you're right of course, but I hope not too much...

OTOH, if indeed it needs more bending back, I suppose I'm going to have to try another warranty claim — this shouldn't be normal, right?!

 

[abbienormal]

My center stand has been relegated to sitting on a shelf in my garage. I do not consider myself a hard cornering person but when I stuffed the centerstand hard enough that the rear end stepped out on me, a lot! Scard the crap out of me :blink: This was after I had touched it down several times so I took it off. Mine already had the smaller stop installed by Speaker's when I got it. I tried shortening the rubber, looked at the little difference it made and decided to remove the stand. I hate not having a center stand but I hate crashing even more.

 

[Bill Hagan]

abbienormal wrote:

My center stand has been relegated to sitting on a shelf in my garage. I do not consider myself a hard cornering person but when I stuffed the centerstand hard enough that the rear end stepped out on me, a lot! Scard the crap out of me :blink: This was after I had touched it down several times so I took it off. Mine already had the smaller stop installed by Speaker's when I got it. I tried shortening the rubber, looked at the little difference it made and decided to remove the stand. I hate not having a center stand but I hate crashing even more.

I do consider myself a hard-cornering person -- tho not necessarily a skilled hard-cornering person :woohoo: -- so I appreciate your concern. That said, while I realize that removing it is less expensive than a new rear shock, I cannot commend to anyone more what a difference that HyperPro shock I got from Todd makes. With that (and, admittedly, a few more suspension tweaks) I don't touch down now even when two-up, heavily loaded, and riding to the point Kathi is screaming and banging her fists on my back. :laugh:

Moreover, when I did experiment and removed the centerstand, I ground down the exhaust can! :S

Regards,

Bill

 

[guzzibob]

Abbienormal, the following may be obvious & old news to you, but just in case. I went through this in detail here before the forum crashed, oh well:

1)A lot depends upon how much you weigh, whether or not you carry a passenger, & how much stuff you bring with you. I weigh 170 lb, never have a passenger, don't take tons of stuff with me on a trip. If you are much heavier and/or carry a passenger, unless your riding is tame suspension upgrades will likely be necessary.
2)You have adjusted up from factory settings the rear spring preload & suspension damping, right? Cause as they come they are freeway plush, with a lot of room for stiffening up to enable center stand usage, if not already done.
3)Do you have the early, or later rear spring? The changeover was sometime early '07, my Norge date of mfg is March or April 07, has the later spring. The older spring is hopelessly soft, you'll have to change the spring or the entire shock to do any kind of aggressive riding. If a 7/16" wrench fits over the rear spring, sorry, you got the old one. Takes a 12 mm to fit over the new, much better one.
4)I live near LA & have lots & lots of wonderful canyon & mountain roads nearby. If you came to the Malibu National, you know what I mean. With the later spring, the stock shock properly adjusted, & the stop cut no almost nothing I am able to ride the local roads as I like, which is moderately aggressive, but by no means banzai, with the main stand in place. (Todd/Racer X, feel free to modify my self description if you like.) I also took a file to the sharp edge on the side where it lightly scraped before the adjustments, & when not on a long trip requiring bag usage I always keep the exhaust in the up position, which in turn raises the centerstand & increases ground clearance. Plenty of room for anything I need locally or on a not so long trip in my seat pack & Givi top case. Since doing all this, I've put on close to 10,000 miles, with lots of canyon scratching, & a number of long trips with ALL the luggage on-when I am a bit more careful, just in case. Haven't scraped since.
5)If the above doesn't do it for you, like Bill Hagen says, the Hyperpro shock will. I also did some front end work-but that was just to stiffen up the Cadillac ride, nothing to do with the centerstand business.

All of the above said, I totally understand where you are coming from. The way it comes from the factory, it grinds way too easily for my taste. Scared the crap out of me, too, till I went about fixing it.

 

[abbienormal]

Thanks for the info Guzzibob. I checked my spring and it must be the newer one as an 11mm (7/16") won't fit it but a 12 just barely does. The build date on mine is May, 2007. I am not in a position currently to shell out for the HyperPro shock though I must admit the Works Performance shocks on the back of my 1998 PC800 Honda and the Ohlins on my 1987 Honda VFR700F2 both made a huge difference. I never thought of myself as preferring a soft ride but I really did not classify the Norge as a soft smooth ride. Actually, I question the action of the forks a bit but my lack of knowledge makes me wonder what to do to improve it without just throwing money at it till I get it right.
I'd like to try stiffening the rear for more clearance but I am so gun shy of the centerstand dragging that I am not in any rush to put it back on. While I was down in VA, WV, NC last summer I know if the stand had been on I would have crashed way more than once. I am also short of leg so if anything raises the bike much I am hurting. I tried the optional shorter seat and the only difference I could tell was it was more uncomfortable.

Rudy - My toys are as follows

2007 Moto Guzzi Norge
1998 Honda PC800
1994 Honda PC800 – To be reassembled
1992 Yamaha Riva Razz 50cc scooter
1987 Honda VFR700F2
1974 Suzuki TS125
1972 Suzuki TS90
2003 Honda TRX350 Rancher ATV

 

[guzzibob]

Abbienormal, I totally understand how you feel, in your shoes I probably wouldn't put the centerstand back on either, esp if you are reasonably satisfied as is. For curiosity, do you weigh significantly more than my 170lb or often ride 2 up? As someone with a 29" inseam, also understand your other problem. I too went for the shorter seat, in my case the Breva version-which is supposed to be exactly the same as the Norge except for $100 less for no obvious reason & a slightly different color scheme, 2-tone grey/black plus red stitching-perfect for my red Norge I thought. This is supposed to be a gel seat, & I (like a number of others on Wildguzzi) thought it more rather than less comfortable than the stock. Different shaped rears (I mean yours & mine), perhaps? Seemed to me a bit lower than stock, but less than the 1" claimed. Other thing I did was make myself taller-by having my cobbler insert about 1/2" material between the heel/sole material & the boot itself. Not so expensive, routine for him (short women do it all the time), & with the seat made for me a big difference, esp on those occaisional off camber stops.

As for the front end, if you can do it yourself it costs almost nothing to change the front fork oil from the stock 5w to 10w or even more. I didn't go that way, but others have & reported results satisfying to them, namely a firmer & better damped ride.

Compared to my older Tonti framed Guzzis (78 850T3FB & 91 1000S) I found the Norge ride as delivered way too soft & underdamped, like floating on a cloud. OK on the freeway, but not so in the mountains & canyons. Perhaps yours came differently adjusted or you just came to it with differing expectations &/or prior experiences. I'm a lot happier with it now, hope you get there too. Really, really wish someone would design a better centerstand, with significantly greater ground clearance & less or at least not more effort required. I'd sure likely buy one, bet lots of others would too unless grossly expensive.

 

[RJVB]

I have something like 16W oil in my forks nowadays, and that makes for a big difference from stock (never touched the adjustments though, so don't even know if they're set the same as before the change).

Re the centre stand: I've noticed that it happens quite often that the bike is actually almost balancing on the stand, both wheels more or less off the ground. Happens when the ground isn't perfectly flat (or rather, the bike isn't pointed upwards a very gentle slope) esp. when I'm carrying stuff (read: more than usual). Never having owned another bike I don't know whether or not this is usual, but I can't help but wonder if the stand's fixation (or the frame at that point) is designed to carry the full weight!

 

[abbienormal]

I like the 10wt fork oil change. I run 10wt synthetic in all my other street bikes. I was not aware that the OEM was 5wt. Sounds like a good winter project and since it is winter... I must be near your size as I am 5'4", 29" inseam and too close to 170 pounds. My lower seat must be the Breva seat also. It was only $150 and is the 2-tone with red stitching. I am running the stock seat though for more comfort. Unfortunately the lady friend does not like getting on and off the Norge so all my riding on it is solo, normally with bags on and on a long trip I use a Givi #52 trunk. If she goes, we take the Honda PC800. The trunk fits both and the red is exactly the same.
I looked into having my soles made thicker when I first got the bike. I have an old pair of riding boots that are fine except they are no longer waterproof so I was going to have those done first. I'll look back into that. Unfortunately the closest cobbler I could find to do this was in a town 45 minutes away and as it is 27 degrees out I guess I would pass on riding down there.

As for RJVB's question on the centerstand supporting all the weight, I worked at a Honda dealership (parts, service and sales) from 1973 to1993 and I have never seen one not made to that plus the rider and passenger. Of course this is my first Guzzi! Someday I hope to put a V50 beside it just for the heck of it since I have wanted a Guzzi since I saw a V50 at the Daytona cycle show in 1978.

 

[abbienormal]

While installing the new shock on my Norge I noticed my centerstand stop was hitting the very corner of the stop on the muffler. This was holding it down farther than a flat hit would andd even with me grinding so much rubber off the centerstand stop that is is about 1/8" thick it still looked like I could get the stand closer to the muffler. I reached across with a 12" crescent wrench closed up enough to fit the metal bracket and bent it up some. This really got my centerstand up some. If it rattles too much with the thin stop I may go back to a thicker stop and bend the tab some more.
I have been wanting to reinstall the centerstand so I think this will allow me to run it along with the new shock and fork springs.

 

[abbienormal]

Here is a view of the tab from the other side.