I have a 07 Norge that needs a front tire. I am having a real hard time with both bottom bolts on the front calipers. The top ones came loose but I have broken tools trying to get the bottoms ones out. I do not want to damage the screws but am getting nowhere. I know that heat would help but don't like this idea. In fact I think it's a bad idea. Has anyone else had this issue and if so what did you do to get them out ? I'm open to suggestions.
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Norge Front Brake Caliper
- Thread starter bsahdmg
- Start date
Trout
GT Reference
Not at all familiar with the Norge but am very familiar with stuck bolts. I can't find a pic of how those calipers mount up; how about posting one if you can so I can get a better idea of what we are dealing with.
I am curious if you are having problems with both sides lower bolts or just one side? I kinda hate to suggest this but are you sure it is the mounting bolts you are trying to remove & not the caliper assembly bolts?
If this is the first time they are being taken off there is the possibility that they were over tightened or cross threaded at the factory. If that is the case (cross threaded) you are probably looking at drilling them out but lets not jump to any hasty conclusions. Hit the parts store & see if they have products like DB Blaster or Sea Foam, the more common ones like WD40, CRC or Liquid Wrench are passable. Start spraying it down with any of these rust busters and have patience. You may want to spray them over a few days. Heat will work but in this case it's going to discolor and damage other stuff.
I just looked at the Cali and like my old T's it it using an allen wrench socket head screw. If you have access to an air compressor and an impact you can cut an allen wrench and fit it into an impact socket and gently let the impact wrench vibrate the bolt. If you don't have air then cut the allen wrench so it is straight, put it in the bolt, put a 6 point box wrench on the allen wrench and while holding steady firm pressure on the box wrench tap the end of the allen wrench with a decent hammer. Vibration can work wonders for a stuck bolt.
PS: Cut the allen wrench short it will be easier to work with and will be more effective for tapping with hammer.
I am curious if you are having problems with both sides lower bolts or just one side? I kinda hate to suggest this but are you sure it is the mounting bolts you are trying to remove & not the caliper assembly bolts?
If this is the first time they are being taken off there is the possibility that they were over tightened or cross threaded at the factory. If that is the case (cross threaded) you are probably looking at drilling them out but lets not jump to any hasty conclusions. Hit the parts store & see if they have products like DB Blaster or Sea Foam, the more common ones like WD40, CRC or Liquid Wrench are passable. Start spraying it down with any of these rust busters and have patience. You may want to spray them over a few days. Heat will work but in this case it's going to discolor and damage other stuff.
I just looked at the Cali and like my old T's it it using an allen wrench socket head screw. If you have access to an air compressor and an impact you can cut an allen wrench and fit it into an impact socket and gently let the impact wrench vibrate the bolt. If you don't have air then cut the allen wrench so it is straight, put it in the bolt, put a 6 point box wrench on the allen wrench and while holding steady firm pressure on the box wrench tap the end of the allen wrench with a decent hammer. Vibration can work wonders for a stuck bolt.
PS: Cut the allen wrench short it will be easier to work with and will be more effective for tapping with hammer.
http://cybermotorcycle.com/gallery/moto_guzzi/Moto_Guzzi_2007_Norge.htm
You have a frozen bolt. Soak it with lubricant overnight but do not get any on the brake pad or you will ruin it, then go to Sears and buy this:
http://www.sears.com/neiko-1-2-inch...SPM2665972601P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
with the appropriate metric size allen head tip that you need, like this:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-8-...p-00946672000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3
It should let loose, if not, get any old piece of pipe that the end of the breaker bar can fit into, say about 3' in length, to effectively increase the length of the breaker bar and thereby radically increase the torque. The bolt WILL come loose. No hammer, no impact driver, no heat, no damage. Be sure to wire brush the bolt clean and remove all lubricant from it and the hole before reassembly. Retorque to proper tightening spec.
Easy, non damaging.
Or if you like, send me a Private Message and I will give you my phone #. Drive 86 miles North to Findlay, OH and we'll toss her on my lift and use my tools for free. I have a complete professional setup.
You have a frozen bolt. Soak it with lubricant overnight but do not get any on the brake pad or you will ruin it, then go to Sears and buy this:
http://www.sears.com/neiko-1-2-inch...SPM2665972601P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
with the appropriate metric size allen head tip that you need, like this:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-5-8-...p-00946672000P?prdNo=3&blockNo=3&blockType=G3
It should let loose, if not, get any old piece of pipe that the end of the breaker bar can fit into, say about 3' in length, to effectively increase the length of the breaker bar and thereby radically increase the torque. The bolt WILL come loose. No hammer, no impact driver, no heat, no damage. Be sure to wire brush the bolt clean and remove all lubricant from it and the hole before reassembly. Retorque to proper tightening spec.
Easy, non damaging.
Or if you like, send me a Private Message and I will give you my phone #. Drive 86 miles North to Findlay, OH and we'll toss her on my lift and use my tools for free. I have a complete professional setup.
P
PP-1753
Guest
These particular bolts are the specific Brembo ones and are Hex Socket head bolts. They are 7mm so require a 7mm Allen key. Now, as I found out the hard way, a 7mm Allen key is rarer than the proverbial hen's teeth (or should that be rocking horse shit?). You can get them but they are usually part of a pretty big set, and quality is variable. Stay away from the ball headed types as these little babies (screws) have a shallow hex in them. There are some great tool kits available in the US that include the 7mm Allen Key.
I took my bike to a dealer to replace the tyres - Guess what? They wrecked these bolts - probably because they didn't have the correct sized Allen key. The good side is they are available from an authorised Guzzi dealer for small change (I think I paid about $4 each for mine).
I ended up using an EziOut to remove the screws (they had been overtightened and the hex socket chewed right out). A set of EzyOuts is a good inexpensive addition to any tool kit - get one with the correct drills supplied with the kit (as opposed to the set of EzyOuts only).
As Scott says, you will need to drill the bolts carefully and use an EzyOut to unscrew the bolt. Do this after you buy a set of the correct bolts so you are not off the road waiting for parts.
I took my bike to a dealer to replace the tyres - Guess what? They wrecked these bolts - probably because they didn't have the correct sized Allen key. The good side is they are available from an authorised Guzzi dealer for small change (I think I paid about $4 each for mine).
I ended up using an EziOut to remove the screws (they had been overtightened and the hex socket chewed right out). A set of EzyOuts is a good inexpensive addition to any tool kit - get one with the correct drills supplied with the kit (as opposed to the set of EzyOuts only).
As Scott says, you will need to drill the bolts carefully and use an EzyOut to unscrew the bolt. Do this after you buy a set of the correct bolts so you are not off the road waiting for parts.
So... if you use my method, you'll also need a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter and this:
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-7mm-hex-bit-socket/p-00942677000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
If you lubricate it well and let it sit overnight before removing it, you shoul not damage the bolts at all. I would use a few q-tips with alcohol and then a few dry ones and remove all oil from inside the hex head before placing the tool in and applying torque force. Dry tool surface to dry hex head surface.
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-7mm-hex-bit-socket/p-00942677000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
If you lubricate it well and let it sit overnight before removing it, you shoul not damage the bolts at all. I would use a few q-tips with alcohol and then a few dry ones and remove all oil from inside the hex head before placing the tool in and applying torque force. Dry tool surface to dry hex head surface.
Thanks for all the feed back. Here's what I have done already. A 3/8 drive socket tool with a allen tip is a no go. It breaks. I purchased a 7mm allen wrench. I have taken a punch and hit the inside of the allen bolt to try and jar it. Then using the allen wrench with a cheater pipe about 12" long I put a lot of pressure on it and have hit the end of the allen wrench (where it bends so I was driving the tip into the bolt). No luck. Then I drove down on or hit down on the cheater pipe hoping to jar the bolts loose. No luck. There is a paint mark on both the lower bolts and I can tell someone at one time or another has over tighten them. I was pretty sure these were bolts made for the calipers which means if I drill them out I will have to order new one. Nearest dealer is 150 miles away. I would not try heating the caliper because it will be junk if I do. I am also worried about using spray lube. Will it mess up the paint on the shock housing or the caliper ? I have not tried cutting the allen wrench and using it in a socket with a air impact. I will try this tomorrow. I am a mechanic by trade and have all the tools I need but as one knows we all have some treats of the trade and was hoping someone had one for this problem. This sucks because I really want to ride to the National Rally. Thanks again for your input.
bsahdmg said:
Well why didn't you say so in the first place? That's a Horse of a Different Color...
Due to the bolts being a different metal than the fork tube, a redox chemical reaction has taken place between the metals and the metals are now fused. The impact driver is a workable idea but in the past, I have found that using the maximum air pressure/force setting is not the way to go. I have had much better results with longer duration hammering at a lower pressure, and reversing the direction back and forth, effectively breaking the metal surfaces apart from one another SLOWLY and also thereby preserving the female hex head shape.
Saran Wrap covered with paper towels works great for wrapping around parts you want to avoid over-spray of penetrating oil onto.
I also have this which will not shatter...
http://www.sears.com/gearwrench-843...SPM7154151002P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
Guz5
Tuned and Synch'ed
It seems a bit tight hey? even after hitting and lots of applied torque. Heat is the only thing left apart from drilling. Use a hair dryer, soft and gentle with little chance of head damaging the finish. Or a paint stripper gun, carefully.
iainw
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Not shifted it yet?
Loctite 8040 Freeze & Release. This stuff works the same as heat but in the opposite direction and without the damage heat can cause.
Loctite 8040 Freeze & Release. This stuff works the same as heat but in the opposite direction and without the damage heat can cause.
iainw said:
SWEET! I learned something new today... Thanks very much!
