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Norge Front Fork Adjustment??

M

MurphyPeoples

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jan 29, 2009
Messages
67
Location
South Carolina, USA
Picked up my 2008 Norge this morning. 31 degrees F when I pulled out of the dealer. Never got above 46F on the 5 hour drive to Home. But the "Red Goose" has migrated safely into her new nest.

Question though: At the dealer I tried to set all the suspension adjustments to "my weight". But as many of you Norge owners know... the book just says "Normal, Medium, Maximum". Here's what STRANGE... As described on Page 77 of the owners manual ALL THREE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE FRONT FORKS HAVE THE SAME DESCRIPTION?????

Normal = 2 turns from completely tightened

Medium = 2 turns from completely tightened

Maximum = 2 turns from completely tightened

And it gets STRANGER. The owners manual says that the bike is set up from the factory "Normal".
Well... when I went to tighten the adjustment all the way tight clockwise... IT TOOK LIKE 30 FULL REVOLUTIONS!

Then I backed it off 2 turns from completely tightened.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what it going on??? In the end the bike didn't feel too tight/firm, and didn't dive under braking. (Which it WOULD DIVE hard under easy braking before I adjusted it). A different Norge I test rode a few weeks ago had the same "Hard Diving" problems under moderate braking until the dealer adjusted it.

Is this typical of the setup from the factory?

oh... btw - I LOVE MY NEW BIKE!
Murphy
 
Sadly, some Guzzis do leave the factory "unfinished." Suspension settings can be anyone's guess. The manual may be saying that the same fork preload is recommended in all cases, but using "translated Italian".

Valve clearances tend to be excessive. Vacuum balance is often poor and the TPS set incorrectly. Tyre pressures!!!!!!!!!!

Best to check the stand mounting bolts and exhaust header nuts too.

Graham
 
Murphy, always a crap shoot when a new bike arrives. The only adjustment you have on the forks is spring pre-load, and they should be nearly max'ed for any "normally sized" rider. The bike comes with fork Springs that are set up for a 155-170# rider. Rear spring (preload) much the same. There is a easy way to know if you got the "later" spring (5/8" open end wrench as I recall)... but best bet is HP Fork Springs and YSS PD Valves in the front, and a HP 460 Mono in the rear. ;)

Hope that helps.
 
GrahamNZ wrote:
Sadly, some Guzzis do leave the factory "unfinished." Suspension settings can be anyone's guess. The manual may be saying that the same fork preload is recommended in all cases, but using "translated Italian".

Valve clearances tend to be excessive. Vacuum balance is often poor and the TPS set incorrectly. Tyre pressures!!!!!!!!!!

Best to check the stand mounting bolts and exhaust header nuts too.

Graham
Click to expand...

Graham - Thanks very much! I really appreciate the experienced advice - and I'll make sure to follow through.
Take Care.
Murphy
 
Expanding on Todd's (RacerX) post, I to found the front end diving under moderate to heavy braking on the Norge a pucker factor, due to the excellent brakes on it, cranking up the preload helped for a while, as the bike got broken in at about 6,000 miles I was not happy again with the front end dive and it is time to service the forks anyhow. So I have waiting in my garage a set of the Hyperpro springs and PD valves obtained from Todd waiting to go in. Wont be until after Bike week in Daytona though. I'll post back with the results.
 
draidt wrote:
Expanding on Todd's (RacerX) post, I to found the front end diving under moderate to heavy braking on the Norge a pucker factor, due to the excellent brakes on it, cranking up the preload helped for a while, as the bike got broken in at about 6,000 miles I was not happy again with the front end dive and it is time to service the forks anyhow. So I have waiting in my garage a set of the Hyperpro springs and PD valves obtained from Todd waiting to go in. Wont be until after Bike week in Daytona though. I'll post back with the results.
Click to expand...

Has anyone tried just going to a slightly heavier weight fork oil? Just curious.
murphy
 
MurphyPeoples wrote:
Has anyone tried just going to a slightly heavier weight fork oil? Just curious.
Click to expand...
No, largely because most Guzzi riders are "above the average" of 155-170#. It might help some to slow the rebound, but compression/spring is a larger issue IMO.
 
RacerX wrote:
MurphyPeoples wrote:
Has anyone tried just going to a slightly heavier weight fork oil? Just curious.
Click to expand...
No, largely because most Guzzi riders are "above the average" of 155-170#. It might help some to slow the rebound, but compression/spring is a larger issue IMO.
Click to expand...


well yes actually, at least on my Breva, and lots of other folk have done this as well. The oil in the forks from the factory was around 4w. I had mine changed to 10w and I know others that changed to 15w. It mad a MASSIVE difference to the ride. Certainly worth trying before having to fork out (pun intended) for new springs etc. (Sorry Todd)
 
Geordie wrote:
well yes actually, at least on my Breva, and lots of other folk have done this as well. The oil in the forks from the factory was around 4w. I had mine changed to 10w and I know others that changed to 15w. It mad a MASSIVE difference to the ride. Certainly worth trying before having to fork out (pun intended) for new springs etc. (Sorry Todd)
Click to expand...
4w?! No apologies necessary. Try it... though it's an adventure to do on the Breva/Norge.
However, in my experience, any "spirited" riding will quickly tax the springs (front and rear).
 
In my Breva I use 15W fork oil and increased the volume from the recommended 400cc to 450cc. And I weigh 90kg in full riding gear.

Todd is surely giving good advice regarding a spring upgrade, which from what I've read it's what I'd do.

IMHO suspension upgrades are many times more rewarding than power upgrades. Let's face it, we all have to go around corners (at least where I live!) but most modern big bikes are already too powerful for more than a select few to use fully.

Graham
 
RacerX wrote:
MurphyPeoples wrote:
Has anyone tried just going to a slightly heavier weight fork oil? Just curious.
Click to expand...
No, largely because most Guzzi riders are "above the average" of 155-170#. It might help some to slow the rebound, but compression/spring is a larger issue IMO.
Click to expand...

RacerX - from what I've seen (ridden) so far (340 miles yesterday in 40F temps) - I think you may be right!
I know I had my fork oil down to at least 30F and it still wasn't "thick" enough to see a major difference.
I think I'll wind up following Graham's lead. Again... thanks for taking the time to post!
Murphy
 
The sorry was for arguing against spending money with you and should have been followed by a smiley -> ;-)
I was really just answering the question of whether folk have stuck heavier oil in the forks. I was sceptical but pleasantly surprised at the results.

I'm 80Kg naked and find I can adjust the suspension to cope admirably for solo riding. My missus weighs bugger all and I also ride a lot less aggressively with pillion on board so the bike copes.

anyho... the suspension upgrade is on my menu but a fair way behind clearing my debts and helping the kids through university.
 
I have had my Norge since last March, and recently did the 6250 mile service. I replaced the fork oil with 15W on the advice of the service folks at the dealer (MI in Seattle). My manual said 450 cc, so that is what wnet back in. I then set to 8.5 clicks from max (my manual again) and went for a test ride. It made a major difference. I had cranked in more preload to compnesate for the excessive dive, but with the 15W and the preload set as per the manual, the front end is much better. I set the rear up for the middle setting for preload and rebound settings - rider with luggage I think it is.

At some point I may replace the springs in the forks and put the hyperpro shock in the back, but as of now, the suspension is working well. Oh, and just FYI, I am 6'1" and run 220 naked - probably 250 with all my gear.
 
StormShearon wrote:
I then set to 8.5 clicks from max (my manual again) and went for a test ride.
Click to expand...

Storm - could you please post here what the settings are according to your manual? Are you talking about the "Use + Maintenance Book" that comes with the bike? Or the Shop Service Manual? If you'll look at my original post - the "U+MB" gives strange information.
Thanks!
Murphy
 
Just touching on the basics for a moment - the springs are what support the bike+load, not the damping. The test for spring correctness is the amount of un-laden and laden sag measured at each wheel. Excessive sag, which can't be corrected by adding preload, means that a more powerful spring is needed.

Only once the springs are correct should the damping be played with. Damping is there to control the rate at which the springs compress and extend as energy is applied and released as the bike passes over bumps etc.

A common mistake is to increase preload to lessen dive under brakes because what can happen is that the damping starts doing the job the springs are there for. Ditto for the rear end when a pillion/load is added.

The reason why some of us increased the fork oil volume is to add some air-spring-effect when the forks are about to bottom out, say when braking hard and hitting a bump at the same time. Increasing the oil viscosity is to slow the rate at which it can pass through the damping paths, making it more effective.

I know next to nothing about Norges, but the same principles apply universally. I could expand on this if anyone is interested.

Buells, being so short and with extreme steering geometry, are hyper sensitive to correct setup for rider weight. Get it all correct and they're really hard to catch. Get it wrong and it's like riding a pig.

Rider weight means complete with riding gear. Naked I'm 82kg, rising to 90kg in riding gear. Good to hear that Guzzi are now following Buell in giving specific settings for rider weights. Or is that truly the case?

Graham
 
If you live in Kansas or Oklahoma, I would suggest just riding the Norge and never touching a thing on the suspension. But... if you plan to ride in the mountains, canyons, or even hills it is well worth your money to get the Hyperpro Suspension. You can spend years fiddling with fork oil and spring rates, and that is the real Guzzisti way. To fiddle with something and never get it quite right or make it worse than stock is Guzzisti heritage. Now if you want your Norge to handle like it is capable of, actually adjust the suspension and it make a difference, then save up a little money. Racer X has already come up with a solution. 10000 miles on the Norge not one without Hyperpro straightening out the curves for me.
 
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