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Norge TB sync - how difficult?

Rotten Ralph

Rotten Ralph

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
31
Hopefully I won't have to do this for awhile, but can the Norge throttle bodies be synchronized with a voltmeter and carb stix?

I saw the posted procedures for the Bassa and Stone but was curious if this is the same for the Norge. The downloaded Norge Service Manual shows it done with the Axone.
 
Rotten Ralph wrote:
Hopefully I won't have to do this for awhile, but can the Norge throttle bodies be synchronized with a voltmeter and carb stix?
Click to expand...
T/B sync can be done using carb stix, yes... but the TPS (zero-ing) has to be done with Axone or VDSTS.
 
I"d suggest you get an electronic Carbmate, try here http://www.aerostich.com/catalog/US/Car ... 16946.html . I have one and with it you'll be able to do the easiest TB sync ever. I've owned the Twinmax, mercury carb stixs and vacuum gages in the past. The Carbmate is hands down the easiest to use, at least on a twin cylinder engine. You are also going to want to get the VDSTS to electronically adjust the TPS back to it's correct value before and after you do the TB sync. When I did my first service and did the TB sync the bike definitely run like crap until I used the VDSTS to correct the TPS value since the value gets out of wack when you adjust the throttle bodies.
 
+1 on the VDSTS and the Carbmate. I just did the 6250 service on my Norge, and using the VDSTS to set the TPS and the Carbmate to sync the throttle bodies was totally a piece of cake. Since Moto International gave me a DVD copy of the service manual, I just followed the sync procedure there after re-setting the TPS with the VDSTS (purchased from guzzitech). It was very simple.
 
Just a FYI: MG published a technote here announcing warranty voiding if throttles were balanced using anything but the official equiment by Weber-Marelli (or however those guys are called).

So maybe a good idea to get a little bottle of the correct yellow paint ;)
 
For sycning the throttle bodies on the Norge, there is a bypass screw on the TB that is used to do this (they are on the side of the TB's)as long as no gross adjustments needs to be done. And on these, there is no yellow paint. I am not at home, so I can't post s pic of the appropriate page from the manual.
 
RJVB wrote:
Just a FYI: MG published a technote here announcing warranty voiding if throttles were balanced using anything but the official equiment by Weber-Marelli (or however those guys are called).
Click to expand...

René I'm not sure that this is very clear mate - what they actually said was that no warranty claim would be allowed if the throttle stop screw on the left hand TB had been tampered with, as evidenced by the yellow paint layer being damaged.

The procedure to balance the TB does not need this screw to be adjusted so no problem for the shed mechanic.

BTW resetting the "sacred screw" to as good as exactly OEM spec can be done if you by chance altered it and of course know how and have a VDSTS.
 
I can't find the note easily right now and have no time to go chase it. I do recall very clearly that it mentioned syncing, and that there was a discussion how weird this new rule actually was (either on guzzitech.com or on another forum).

If we were mistaken at the time ... so much the better! I'm pretty sure most dealers won't have the "homologated" equipment...
 
Thanks for the info. Looks like at $195 for the VDSTS, I'll use the dealer for the few times that TB synch might be necessary.
 
Rotten Ralph wrote:
Thanks for the info. Looks like at $195 for the VDSTS, I'll use the dealer for the few times that TB synch might be necessary.
Click to expand...
You better find out how much your dealer is going to charge you to do the sync every 6,250 miles. Then figure in what your time is worth to take the bike to the dealer and wait around until they get to it or drop it off and then come back when they are done. And that assumes that they have the tool and do everything right the first time. $195.00 seems cheap to me for just the time savings alone. But to each his own.:blink:
 
Realistically, do you need to check the TB sync every 6200 miles if the bike is running great and the gas mileage is not changing?
I've never owned a car or motorcycle like that before.
 
Of course not - if it aint broke no need to fix it, but....

We do know from many posts on the old/old/old and the old/old and the old board that these engines are very sensitive to the balance being out, many have reported that although they thought the engine was running fine, a really accurate balance job made a noticeable difference. The emphasis here is on really accurate, as I said the engines seem to be sensetive to it.

I suppose it depends either on how much you want to spend at your dealer or how inclined you are to tinker, but in the end the bike will still run even with the balance way out, it just might get a bit upset on occasion and let you know that it really is time for some maintenance at which time you can oblige, just like looking after a good woman really :)
 
I went and bought the VDSTS as I intend to do the normal maintenance myself - unless something requires the bike going to the dealer. Also since I plan on keeping the Norge for a long time, I figured the price was very reasonable compared to mechanic hourly charges.

When I did the 6250 service, the TPS was at 3.8 instead of the 4.7 +- .2 reading. Now it sits at 4.8 and the bike pops less on decel and is much more responsive at the throttle.

Further, the entire procedure was simple and straightforward - much easier than syncing a Honda ST1100 (last bike).
 
Rotten Ralph wrote:
Thanks for the info. Looks like at $195 for the VDSTS, I'll use the dealer for the few times that TB synch might be necessary.
Click to expand...

Are you sure the dealer really got an Axone? - and knows how to use it as well? ;)
Our highly esteemed Mr Roper usually do have views on that subject.

Got a VDSTS myself, and after resetting alla values by the gentle help of that, my Breva is running better than ever, including services performed by authorized dealers.
Neither do I think TPS-resettings are needed often, but once is better than never in any case. The later is what I suspect happened at the dealer services. The price of a VDSTS is anyhow about 50% of a complete service, adding oils, plugs and you own work to the VDSTS, and you got just about the price of one ordinary dealer service. :woohoo:
 
Rotten Ralph wrote:
Realistically, do you need to check the TB sync every 6200 miles if the bike is running great and the gas mileage is not changing?
I've never owned a car or motorcycle like that before.
Click to expand...

On my B11 with close to 8,000 miles, it has needed the TB's synched 3 times: Once at break in, 3,500, and 6,250 miles. I bought a Morgan Carbtune Pro and will be contacting Todd soon to pick up a VDSTS. I plan on checking or synching the TB's every 3,000 miles. My engine seems to be sensitive to a proper TB balance.

So to answer your question, I would say wait until you notice a difference in engine performance. If that seems to be more frequent than every 6,250 miles, a VDSTS and a vacuum balancing device may be worth your time and money.
 
Out of interest, can anyone tell me which way out the TB sync would have to be to increase fuel consumption by quite a bit? I realise it will be richer mixture, but what numbers are we talking about? Average consumption has gone from 46 down to about 36 immediately after the last service.
A Post Script to this,
Went to see Baldrick in Corsa today, and he has installed a new map, Av fuel consumption on the way home 45.3mpg. Keeping fingers crossed.
 
VDSTS was the best buy I have made for my Breva.
Local dealer reset the TPS for me - but the balence was out - result. More vibes and less power.

You have 2 darn big pots there - it's gona be sensitive to everything you do. I takes maybe 15 mins to do the carbs at the end of the service and it's time and money well spent in my book.

Whilst cash flow is tight for everyone at the meoment if you want to do your own work you need to tool up. It's part of buying any bike or car. You need the correct size spanners / keys / Filter wrench etc.

Think of the VDSTS as a tool that is required to keep your Guzzi in top tune.

Brian. You sure you aint got a leak somewhere. I have never managed to get my Breva down to 36. Lowest was about 40 - that was with 2 days of serious playing 2 up.
 
If the weather has got much colder and the ETS isn't getting a decent refference, (This is easily checked with Axone or VDST.) then consumption will increase markedly in cold weather. It's why I still recommend packing the ETS holder with some sort of thermal conductor.

Pete
 
Pete, forgive my ignorance. I went riding again today, central Illinois, around 45 degress, mpg has fallen to around 38 on most recent rides per Breva gauge. Define "ETS'" and your packing recommendation. Greatly apppreciate any enlighment.
 
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