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Norge Twin Spark Change

ncassidy

ncassidy

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
152
Location
walpole , new hampshire
inner plug removal on a norge

I am in the process of adjusting the valves on my Norge and had the bright idea to try and remove the inner plugs and inspect and clean them or replace them if needed. I thought it to be a good idea to put some never seize on the threads as the inner plugs don't need changing very often. I attempted to remove one and had no luck in doing so. They are put in a rather tough place to get at with a standard plug wrench. What is the best way to get these plugs out? What size plug wrench is used? Appreciate any help. Thanks
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

I just used a standard hextagon spark plug long socket and cut the length down, took all the corners off with a gridstone and drilled a hole a cross the top to get a lever in.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Graham had this well covered on the old old board, but in a nutshell.

Use a 5/8" spark plug socket. Grind the lower half down to about 21mm so there is clearance to get it onto the spark plug. I use a medium length extension (3/8 drive set).

Before removal, clean the area with compressed air as dirt will accumulate around the spark plug. A little never seize is recommended. To start the plug back into the head, I insert it into the end of some spare fuel line, and use the line to turn the plug to start the threads. Virtually no chance of cross threading. As they say, if it doesn't go easily, something isn't right.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

If I read correctly on this. Take a standard 5/8 plug socket, put it in a lathe and turn down to 22mm thickness to allow room to go over the plug. I think i remember reading something about this on the older board. The rear plug is in a diabolical spot. It would have helped if Guzzi had mooned out the frame to allow easier access. I will turn down a socket tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help on this and using a piece of hose to get the plug started back in is a great idea.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Lathe is getting a little fancy. I just modified mine with a grinding wheel. BTW, dimension is 21mm not 22mm.

John
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

ncassidy wrote:
If I read correctly on this. Take a standard 5/8 plug socket, put it in a lathe and turn down to 22mm thickness to allow room to go over the plug. I think i remember reading something about this on the older board. The rear plug is in a diabolical spot. It would have helped if Guzzi had mooned out the frame to allow easier access. I will turn down a socket tomorrow and give it a try. Thanks for the help on this and using a piece of hose to get the plug started back in is a great idea.
Click to expand...

Brother - if it works, post a pic for me so I can copy your results.
Thanks!
Murphy
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Apart from fighting your way past all that plastic B) the process should be the same as for a Breva. Here is a repeat of my old post on the subject.

Breva V1100 inner spark plugs

• Plug type NGK PMR 8B long-life. Gap 0.6 – 0.7mm
• The handbook gives no replacement interval but calls for inspection every 40,000km. Just as well as they are a hassle to access.
• A thin walled 3/8”drive, 5/8” plug spanner socket is required. The socket end needs to be reduced in a lathe or ground carefully to 19.5mm OD for a length of 20mm to fit into the plug recesses. It’s also best to remove any rubber insert to allow a slightly angled fit onto the plugs, and to ensure the socket doesn’t become stuck, to duct tape it to a 6” minimum length, 3/8” drive extension bar.
• Ideally these plugs are best dealt with during a full service and when the air filter also is due for replacement. Accessing the plugs requires the petrol tank to be removed. Access to the plug caps is much easier if the tappet covers also are removed. There is no need to remove the airbox, but removing from it the oil collector at the front is necessary. The two left side breather hoses should also be disconnected from it. The large one has a screwed hose clamp and the smaller one can be wiggled off without releasing the crimped clamp. Removing the airbox top is easy and allows more manoeuvring space, as does removing the front two bolts from the airbox base.
• Once the plugs have been loosened, it’s best to slide a 250mm length of 8mm ID fuel hose onto the plug tops and complete the removal that way to avoid any possibility of thread damage. Similarly when re-fitting the plugs they should be screwed in using the hose technique.
• Apply high temperature lube to the plug threads before fitting.
• Care is needed to ensure that the plug caps are fitted properly. It can be felt as a mechanical action as they are pushed home onto the plugs. Also check that the HT cable ends are pushed fully into the ignition coil connections.
• I removed and lubed my inner plugs at the first service and again at 30,000km. From the look of them I’d say they’d last a very long time although the outer metal parts are prone to rusting due to poor attention to drainage from the recess areas. Internally they looked fine and even the gaps were perfectly set.

Graham

Innersparkpluginitslair.jpg

Inner spark plug in place

Toolsforinnerplugremoval.jpg

Tools used including ground-down plug socket
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Well, I proceeded to remove the left hand inner plug. Ground down the 5/8 socket to fit and got the plug loose and then used the rubber hose to remove. That is one long winded some bitch. Anyway, the plug looked fine after 16000 miles, so I cleaned it up and reinstalled it. I then moved to the right side and looked at all the wires and other crap covering the plug up so i threw in the towel on that one. Will tackle it next winter when motorcycle riding is a mere dream. Will replace both at that time. I still don't know why, when they design a bike from the beginning that they don't plan for things to be taken apart, especially with common maintenance items. It's Italian, I guess. Also changed the fuel filter, the fuel hose is another tricky little item that can be easily screwed up in the process of being removed. It does work somewhat like an airhose fitting but not just like one. I don't know if I did something right or not but after moving the tank it just popped off. Nothing broke so i was okay and it reinstalled just fine. Were it me, I would have cut a half moon section out of the frame at the point the rear plugs are located so a plug wrench could be put to it easily, with having to dismantle half of the wire ties and airbox and what not. The frame is plenty stout enough to have done that. Maybe when I tear it down to bear bones I may do that. Will be some years before that happens.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Neil,

I removed the airbox to change out those plugs. Much easier than trying to fish stuff around; of course one plug broke so it required the purchase of two sets of plugs. The supplier(rockautoparts) would only sell them in batches of 4.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

I had a pal with a lathe at his work place make me a socket just like the one in Grahams photo, the wall thickness of the socket is now quite thin and i did worry about it breaking. So far however it's work a treat.

Something I would recommened though is using a vacuum cleanner to get any crap out of the plug recess before removing the plug.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

actually, I read that a good dose of compressed air isn't a bad idea either before removing the outer plugs.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Agreed that a blast of compressed air around the plug area first is a good idea - I did that and should have included it in the notes, but a lot of people won't have compressed air available. Space in there is very limited and I'm not sure if a vacuum cleaner nozzle would fit without modification, such as inserting a smaller tube into the nozzle.

Graham
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

I thought most soccer fans have it available, with or without ear-deafening sound ;)
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

Here is my effort.
The right hand inner spark plug has difficult vertical access.
I came to thinking that the best access to change the plugs is from within the engine V using a box spanner and tommy bar.
I cut down a box spanner I bought from the local bike shop to be just longer than the spark plug with enough headroom to be able to drill holes for the tommy bar so it wont be tall enough to foul the frame above the engine. Then round the 6 points off the outside with a file.

My bike is the Sport, so Norge owners may have some plastic to remove.
Tank off.
Air box out.
Plug leads off.
Brush loose dirt around the plug seat.
Blow dirt away with compressed air.
Unscrew plugs.

The Sport plugs are scheduled to be changed at 12000 miles (20000km) and I'm sure I could tell the difference.

There should be a photo below... :unsure:
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

A couple of days ago I changed out all the spark plugs on my Norge while doing the 12.5K service. After reading all the posts about how difficult it is to get to the inner plugs, I was ready for a difficult task. But fortunately, I found that the inner plugs where easy to get to and remove with my turned down plug socket wrench.

GrahamNZ, thanks for posting how much the plug wrench needs to be turned down and for the tip about using a piece of hose to aid in the plug removal/insertion. Without that info it would have been a much harder job.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

Concerning the replacement at 20k intervals. It appears my dealer thinks they'll last 30k km ... and that one of his other clients had some "fun" because of that.

According to him, those inner plugs enter into action only when the engine reaches a certain working temperature. However, if one's dead, the affected cylinder doesn't continue running on a single plug, but is cut off.

Can anyone confirm that??
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

RJVB wrote:
Concerning the replacement at 20k intervals. It appears my dealer thinks they'll last 30k km ... and that one of his other clients had some "fun" because of that.

According to him, those inner plugs enter into action only when the engine reaches a certain working temperature. However, if one's dead, the affected cylinder doesn't continue running on a single plug, but is cut off.

Can anyone confirm that??
Click to expand...

He is wrong, The plugs are fire simultaneously from a double coil that is fed by the same spark impulse lead from the ECU.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

Then how would one explain that the issue (cylinder shut-off) didn't occur during short rides (our dealer is in the middle of Paris...) while a simple replacement of the faulty inner plug corrected it?
 
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