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NTX top end woes

T

Timothy

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Nov 12, 2011
Messages
31
Chaps

No surprises but I've got a recently acquired NTX with a noise from the left cylinder top end. I appreciate this has been well discussed before and I've searched every thread on the board but do seem to get a specific answer. The bike has 1000 miles on it and is an A8 engine.

When cold the engine is absolutely fine but as soon as it gets to full operating temperature I get a very consistent ratty ratty rat noise only from the left hand cylinder that is most pronounced at idle and virtually disappears at 3k revs.

I'm no mechanic but 30 years of riding tells me it's far to pronounced to be normal.

Obviously the easy thing to do is take it to a specialist but the only one in my area basically told me to get lost as it wasn't bought from him. I then took it back to the original Multi franchise dealer the previous owner bought it from who is taking interest but I have no faith they know what they're doing. For starters they didn't even know what oil to put in and used 10/40 at the first 500 mile service. They had it for a day said they'd done the valve clearances but on the ride home as soon as the bike got up to temp the noise reappeared. taking it straight back the mechanic admitted he hadn't run it up to temp to see if he'd solved the problem as "these bikes overheat if left running in the workshop". He claims to have checked the cams etc and they're "fine". He then told me it's fine to ride home and bring it back Monday. I'm starting to get strange looks from other bikers at the traffic lights due to the noise and I can't help thinking their waiting for it to fail as a way of diagnosis.

As the proper specialist dealer doesn't want to know I'm stuck with the clowns for a fix so I can only think that I will need to guide them to a resolution and I'm hoping you guys will tell me in what direction to point them.

Sorry for the long post but with so little support form the dealer channel I'm sort of on my own
 
Who was the dealer? name and shame.

I suppose putting 10/40 oil in may not have helped matters, is it just a case of mal adjusted tappets? I thought the cam/follower issue was supposedly resolved with the recall done on the A5 motors.
Someone more knowledgeable than me will be along soon. Good luck.
 
One would hope that the original dealer completed the recalls before it left the showroom or at the first service although if they can't be bothered to check the oil one doubts if they check for updates.

Based london Uk
 
The best dealer in the UK is Haywards in Cambridge because they don't tell you to go away like other london dealers for warranty work on a bike they haven't sold. Worth the drive to Haywards, by all accounts they've done lots of cam fixes because it seems load of stelvios fail.
 
nel said:
The best dealer in the UK is Haywards in Cambridge because they don't tell you to go away like other london dealers for warranty work on a bike they haven't sold. Worth the drive to Haywards, by all accounts they've done lots of cam fixes because it seems load of stelvios fail.
Click to expand...

Your statement 'load of Stelvios fail' seems to imply that the majority of Stelvios are having major failures with the cams/followers, are these bikes that have had the recall done, or bikes after it? I would like to know how you can validate this. At what sort of distance is this failure occurring? The Stelvio shares a common 8 valve engine with the Griso (albeit later Stelvios have different cam profiles and fuel maps) I'm not aware of it being a major problem with them.
I have seen a couple of cam problems mentioned on this forum as well as the wild goose chase forum, the Moto Guzzi owners club (GB) forum, but that does not mean that loads are having failures, given that forums are the place that usually folks will moan about their bikes shortcomings, then I'm surprised we aren't inundated with reports
I'm just curious as my old 2009 Stelvio was running as sweet as a sweet thing in sweet town when I sold it after 10,000miles and two years, and two others I know with Stelvios are near to 10k with no problems, or are we the lucky ones?
 
Timothy said:
Chaps

When cold the engine is absolutely fine but as soon as it gets to full operating temperature I get a very consistent ratty ratty rat noise only from the left hand cylinder that is most pronounced at idle and virtually disappears at 3k revs.
Click to expand...

Someone more knowledgeable with this engine will correct me but this sound more as a throttle balancing problem.

The proper sequence would be to check the valves and if the mechanic checked them and found nothing wrong ..... per your comment hopefully he knows how to do this properly :roll:
Thereafter they have to sychronize the throttle bodies (Balance them) and finally reset the TPS (position sensor) with a ECU communicator for the bike to idle properly.
 
Apart from the "ratty ratty tat" noise the bike runs absolutely fine so I really don't believe it's throttle bodies. It idles beautify and pulls like a train
 
I thought that in the EU all official dealers are obliged to provide maintanance support to their firm products by EU laws or so regardless of own sales. If so, he cannot refuse. Now, whether you would trust his work or would spend energy on obliging him to conform to law is another story.
 
Is the bike still under warranty?

Clearly the bike was not supplied new from Corsa Italiana in Hersham, though they would have been in Colliers Wood at that time. They know how to PDI a bike, and what oil to fill it with. That leaves three other possibilities, all of which I would prefer not to recommend.
There has also been an occasional issue with the endfloat on the camshafts not set correctly, which makes a noise, but would not be detramental to the engine.

Yes it is true that all EU dealers have to do warranty work regardless of sales, but the good dealers get fed up with others undercutting the retail prices then "avoiding" the warranty stuff, mainly because they are crap.
UK dealers, particularly those in the smoke, lose money on all warranty work big time. So maybe you understand the good dealer not wanting to pick up the work from the bad ones, when they didn't sell the bike in the first place.
I do know Corsa won't turn you away. They may not jump at the chance, but they won't turn you away. Baldrick would certainly give an opinion on the noise you are hearing. The tappets are naturally quite loud on this model.
 
Yes the bike is still under warranty and I totally appreciate the issue the likes of Corsa Italia have when the big multi franchise dealers discount the hell out of the market and then run a mile for the loss making warranty work.

If I was buying a new bike a specialist dealer is the only way to go in my book

All though in this case I do believe the supplying dealer is not completely wringing their hands of me (although I am a problem they'd rather not have)just that they don't really know what they're doing

I understand the engines can be quite noisy but as previously stated 30 years of biking says this noise ain't right.

So the consensus could be mal adjusted end floats, whatever they are ;) The valve clearances have already been checked


Any other suggestion I could put forward to the non Guzzi experienced mechanic to look at when i take it back tomorrow :?:
 
Thought I'd give you an update....

Took the bike into the Multi Franchise dealer where it was originally bought from as whilst I wasn't confident they have a great deal of experience with Guzzi's they were at least on the surface keen to assist.

After two days of calling to be told "it's still on the bench" I finally got from the service assistant "there's an issue with the piston and we're in the process of drawing a list of parts" :eek:

Now I accept I'm not the worlds greatest spanner man but if the noise I was getting is coming from the Piston I'd be bloody amazed. I've had a small end go on a two stoke many years ago and it sounded nothing like that. Hey Ho, I'm in the loop with them now so it looks like I've got to see it through but I have a worring feeling it's going to be a very painful ride...actually skip the "ride" bit as I haven't got a bike to ride on :cry:
 
If you get the bike fixed free of charge then it is a Piaggio-dealer worry of what parts have been replaced.
As long as it will be running properly after wrenching, no worry, just a few days lost, consider them bad weather days.
 
Brian UK said:
Have they contacted Guzzi/Piaggio tech support in Bromley?
Click to expand...

Know idea as I only got to speak to the service receptionist who's "not technical"
 
This topic is interesting.
I am bringing in my 2010 on Monday... Same rattle on right hand cylinder. Doesn't happen consistently only after a run.
I am wondering if this is consistently happening on the right hand cylinder for others? I have my suspicions that the right hand can runs hotter than the left. The right exhaust pipe discolored much quicker than the left and is still darker.
So its either the cam, cam end float, cylinder arghh :twisted: . Concerned if it is actually poor oil cooling it will happen again.
Keep yall posted :shock:
 
Got a chance to talk to the service manager last night and apparently they found some play in the Little End on the left cylinder. So a whole new crank shaft has been ordered. heaven knows how long thats going to take as I doubt theres one lying around on a shelf. I would imagine to fit it will be a complete engine breakdown and re build. I just hope their diagnosis is right :shock:

Just to remind the things only done a thousand miles :eek: :eek:
 
pete roper said:
Little end play so you replace the crank?

Fer fuck's sakes.....
Click to expand...


That's what I thought although I didn't put it so eloquently :lol: :lol:
 
Timothy said:
Got a chance to talk to the service manager last night and apparently they found some play in the Little End on the left cylinder. So a whole new crank shaft has been ordered.
Click to expand...

Surely they meant "connecting rod"? The Little End is the part of the rod that attaches to the piston.

Replacing the crank wouldn't fixt that ....

Lannis
 
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