Old problem reapearing

[kampe]

Last tuesday as i took my griso 8v for a spin I noticed a loud rateling sound half way through the ride. I bought my bike in july 2009 and thought I would escape the tappet and cam problem. Well I didn't :evil: After just 6500 km The tapet in the left cylinder gave way and my griso is now at the dealer getting a new parts. I'm realy concerned about this problem an i thought i'd share it with you guys to let you know that the problem isn't gone. If it's realy valve clearence that couses this problem then keep cheking it!!!!!!!!

I'll keep you updated on how it all works out with warrenty and so on.

Kampe

 

[kampe]

Well the griso is back and the dealer replaced both sides (cams and tapets) the right hand side was stil okay but one of the tapets of the left cilider had been completly smashed. Just the cilindrical part was left and of cause a lot of scrap. I had asked the dealer to drop the pan and check it for debris on my expece. As came to collect the bike and asked hm about the costs he said it was free. now that's good sevice.

I realy do hope thats the end of the problem sofar.

 

[Penis Rotor]

If it was bought in April '09 there is no telling when it was made. did the dealer x-refference it with the list of affected engines or not?

I have not heard of a single repeat CAM/TAPPET failure after the recall work has been done in Oz. I've heard of engines blowing up because the oil pump was trashed by frag and the factory's pathetic idea that flushing the engine will make it all good again fell flat on its face but I haven't heard of further repeats of the problem after the new tappets were installed.

Certainly in my experience the valve clearances DO close up rapidly in the first 1,000Km and then continue to close up until about 5,000. After that they stabilize and tend to only close up the slightest smidge between checks. Last time I didmin at 32,000Km after a 10,000 interval from the previous time I'd looked I think that none of them really *needed* doing but using a 6 thou guage as a 'No-Go' on the exhast and a 4 as a 'Go' guage showed they had closed up probably less than a thou in 10,000! I certainly don't baby my bike!

I think that saying the 'Old Problem' is reappearing is disingenuous. It hasn't even been established whether you machine had the right tappets in it to start with. Do you have a pic of one of the un-failed ones from the opriginal batch? I can tell you from that.

Pete

Pete

 

[Phang]

I’ll get my 2009 Griso SE next month (hopefully), it is imported to the country somewhere late 2009. The dealer said the bike is not subjected to cam/bucket recall, at least there isn’t any notification on this matter from Piaggio according to them. I am not totally convinced that the bike will escape from the cam/bucket failure.

Will a close monitoring on the valve clearances able to detect the failure in advance? I am fairly handy with wrenches, I check and maintain valve clearance on my oil head BMW and a Japanese bike.

I have emailed my VIN (ZGULSE0339M111269) to Moto Guzzi requested a confirmation on the recall matter, they sent me back to my dealer, back to square.

This is my first Guzzi and first post in Guzzitech, I am reading this forum as much as I can since I booked the bike early of the year, in preparation for the quirkiness of my new bike next month.

Cheers,
Phang

 

[Penis Rotor]

The SE was only a twinkle in the manufacturer's eye when the tappets were an issue. Tou can rest easy. If it fucks up it isn't related to the earlier problem.

Pete

 

[Phang]

Thanks for the reply Pete, it is reassuring to hear that from you.

 

[kampe]

I got my griso SE in the beginning of july. I havent asked my dealer if it was on the list but will do. I'm sorry that i havent taken anny pictures of the faild tappet and the other surviving ones. As i was riding home from the dealer there was a strange sound from the right cillinder head that dissapeared after a few km. maybe this is beacause its a new cam/tappet replacement.

I got the idea to have the dealer drop the pan and check for more debris from this forum he said there was some in a whithe filter placed in the engine. i have no idea wich one that is :?:

I realy hope this is the end of the problem and i will check the valve clearence more often.

@Pete. Do you know in wich order the oil runs through the enigine? Does it first go from the sump through te filter and than the oilpump or sump, pump, filter?

@ phang. Congratulations. I hope you'll have your bike soon. :woohoo:

 

[Penis Rotor]

The 8V ngine uses a double vane trochoidal pump also known as a 'Gerotor' type pump. One vane delivers oil at high pressure but comparatively low volume for the bearings and under-piston sprays. The other side delivers high, and I mean HIGH, volume for cooling purposes to the heads and barrels. Make no mistake, this is not an 'Air Cooled' engine in the conventional terms, this is liqwuid cooled with 'Air Assist', the coolant is purely the oil though.

Like any modern engine I know of though the oil pump is the first line in the pick-up. There is only one pick-up in the sump. Delivery will then be separated through a filtered side, (For the bearings.) and the 'Cooling' side will remain un-filtered.

That's OK, as long as something doesn't go wrong!

If something like the tappets fail they will feed a whole heap of ground up shit through the OIL PUMP. Any oil pump has to run tight tollerances to allow it to pump. Having a load of gravel go through it will fuck it. No if's or buts. Don't believe me? ask any owner of a Hydro Cali who had a tappet failure and their pump wasn't replaced!

Regardless of that the bearings will, hopefully, survive. But saying that 'Flushing' the crap out won't protect the oil pump and relying on circulation to clear detritus out of the rest of the engine is, quite simply, bullshit.

I would be deeply skeptical of running any engine with this sort of failure without at the least oil pump inspection. But I'm just some prick on the innerneck. What would I know......

Pete

 

[kampe]

Thanks pete. I'll see what happens, still have a year of warrenty ahead so if she's gonna blow than soon please :blink: .
The dealer had mentioned a filter in the return feed of the oil. Don't know if that's the case but there's where he found the rubble. I'll take the griso on vacation in may and see if all goes well.

best regards,

kampe

 

[Penis Rotor]

Threre is no 'Return Feed' for the oil. There is a pick-up, that has a gauze filter and an oil pressure relief valve.

#3 is the pick up.

#1 is the main pump with 2,3,4,5,& 6 being the OPRV for the oil filter and bearing delivery side

This one is a bit more confusing and I haven't double checked this but my guess is that part #11 is the pick-up filter for the cooling oil side of the pump. This is the ONLY filter for that side, understandably as loss of volume is less of a problem than loss of pressure but neither PRIMARY filters are sufficient to prevent pump damage from larger particulate damage like bits of failing tappet.

Since the secondary side of the pump is designed to deliver VOLUME for cooling, rather than PRESSURE for lubrication it has no OPRV and therefore nowhere to have a filter after the pump. There is NO 'Return feed with a filter on. Why would there be?

I may be wrong. But I bloody doubt it. Think about how a lubrication and cooling system works, what it has to do and how it can be achieved. I have. I'm not sure your dealer has........

Just sayin.......