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One instead of two...

af1-windy

af1-windy

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
193
Location
Hull, England
I have done a search and found a little info but no real info on what the cause is.

Bike running on one cylinder, the right when sat on the bike isn't firing at all. It all started with just 3 miles left do do on an 80 mile ride. I have fitted SB05E plugs caps as per the info and instructions on this site (thank you) but on firing it up this morning the right refuses to play.. :dry: checked the HT lead back to the coil and all seems fine.

Of those that have suffered this problem, what was the cause and cure? Thank you.

Regards

windy
 
af1-windy said:
checked the HT lead back to the coil and all seems fine.
Click to expand...

Did you remove the plugs, connect them to the leads, ground the plugs, got through a start cycle and actually observe spark?
 
john zibell said:
af1-windy said:
checked the HT lead back to the coil and all seems fine.
Click to expand...

Did you remove the plugs, connect them to the leads, ground the plugs, got through a start cycle and actually observe spark?
Click to expand...

Can't find a plug spanner (wrench) to take the plug out, dealer is going to send someone over to take a look and if they can't fix it here they will take it back to the shop.

windy
 
Do you own a timing light? You can use it to check for spark w/o removing anything. If not go to the next step....
Do you have a spare plug you can plug into the lead w/o removing the spark plug..... you could use a #2 phillips screwdriver and put it in the lead and (have someone else) hold the scredriver shank near a coong fin, crank the engine to se if there is a spark. Someone else will feel the effects if it is not done properly!
 
gstallons said:
Do you own a timing light? You can use it to check for spark w/o removing anything. If not go to the next step....
Do you have a spare plug you can plug into the lead w/o removing the spark plug..... you could use a #2 phillips screwdriver and put it in the lead and (have someone else) hold the scredriver shank near a coong fin, crank the engine to se if there is a spark. Someone else will feel the effects if it is not done properly!
Click to expand...

Thank you, plenty to go at, I'll try the spare plug. Dealer said one other customer had this happen and it turned out to be the laed breaking down under load. Anyone heard of this in the the guzzies?

thanks

windy
 
Just replied to your thread on the AF1 board but I still think its an issue of HT lead/cap abuse. Shop can easily run the Activations sequence for the RH coil though and determine if it is a problem there. It is possble that the previous shorting might of spiked the ECU somehow but I really doubt it and if it had I'd expect the whole thing to simply be dead.

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Just replied to your thread on the AF1 board but I still think its an issue of HT lead/cap abuse. Shop can easily run the Activations sequence for the RH coil though and determine if it is a problem there. It is possble that the previous shorting might of spiked the ECU somehow but I really doubt it and if it had I'd expect the whole thing to simply be dead.

Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks pete, the bike will fire up and run, I suspect if it was warm it would idle, albeit lumpy, but because it's starting from cold it dies after a few seconds. The nearest guzzi dealer is about 70 miles away and if I can't ride it there it's going to cost me money to have it picked up so if I can sort it myself with the help of you and others I would be most grateful.. :)
 
pete roper said:
So is this the same issue of it running on one or another issue of it stalling when cold?

Pete
Click to expand...

Sorry, i didn't explain that too well. When it first ran on one I was out for a ride, about 80 miles, so it was warm and made it home but now the bike has been stood and is cold it won't fire up and idle.

windy
 
Who changed the plug caps? maybe the wire isn't seated in there too well.

You need a plug wrench that you carry with you anyway. Get the plugs out and check for spark.
 
Wayne Orwig said:
Who changed the plug caps? maybe the wire isn't seated in there too well.

You need a plug wrench that you carry with you anyway. Get the plugs out and check for spark.
Click to expand...

I fitted the plug caps my self and I was very careful to follow the instructions from this site, however I do intend to check my work at the weekend which is the only time I can get to the bike. :(

I will also get the plugs out and check for a spark. I will post again Saturday when I've had chance to check everything.

Thank you all for helping out. :)

windy
 
Windy, later model bikes have a metal insert in the end of the plug wire designed to screw into the fitting in the original cap. If you swap to SB05E caps you will find that the brass insers won't screw onto the spike in the NGK cap. Answer? idecutters and snip the brass bit off. There should still be ample lead to install the caps, (You only cut off a few mm!). This is an alternative, albeit IMO a better one than getting yet another set of the original caps.

In the UK the weather being generally wet and cold there will be a tendency for the 'Rings' on the original caps to be held into the tube to rust in making them even harder to get out without damage. If you do opt for the original replacements use rubber grease lavishly on the rings! It will ease their removal in future. There is no real reason for the 'Sealing Rings' as the front of the plugs are exposewd to the elements via the cooling galleries, you could probably simply trim them off with nail scissors, but you still end up with fragile caps that have to be removed with an excess of care. I'd go with the SBO5E's and a nip and tuck on the lead if you have ANY doubt!

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Windy, later model bikes have a metal insert in the end of the plug wire designed to screw into the fitting in the original cap. If you swap to SB05E caps you will find that the brass insers won't screw onto the spike in the NGK cap. Answer? idecutters and snip the brass bit off. There should still be ample lead to install the caps, (You only cut off a few mm!). This is an alternative, albeit IMO a better one than getting yet another set of the original caps.

In the UK the weather being generally wet and cold there will be a tendency for the 'Rings' on the original caps to be held into the tube to rust in making them even harder to get out without damage. If you do opt for the original replacements use rubber grease lavishly on the rings! It will ease their removal in future. There is no real reason for the 'Sealing Rings' as the front of the plugs are exposewd to the elements via the cooling galleries, you could probably simply trim them off with nail scissors, but you still end up with fragile caps that have to be removed with an excess of care. I'd go with the SBO5E's and a nip and tuck on the lead if you have ANY doubt!

Pete
Click to expand...

Hi Pete,

I have done exactly what you have described in your first paragraph but still not firing so maybe it's the lead. I can't work on the bike during the week so it'll be saturday before I get back to it. I will remove plugs and check for sprk. Dealer is sending me a pair of ne OE leads and caps which I will fit, if they work I will leave them on but carry the NGK caps and a sharp with me at all times. :)

I will post again Saturday when I've had time to double check my own work. I can't imagine the new caps and leads will turn up for the weekend so it'll be another week before I try them if I can't get it going at the weekend. :(

It's great to have help on here, much like the AF1 aprilia site. Two of the best sites on the tinterweb... :lol:

windy
 
Windy, the list of 'posisibilites' while not endless are many. All I'm trying to do is point out known and relatively 'Common' (In terms of hundreds if not thousands of motorbikes with similar systems. the commonest issue is plug caps torn by people who know no better, I've done it myself back in '08 on my own bike. That doesn't mean it *is* the issue but next step would be checking the coil feeds etc. and as I said take it to somewhere where they can run the 'Activation' cycle through the ECU and check for errors. If the shop is inexperienced or doesn't have enough instruction in the use of the tooling, (Common.) please ask them to email me and I will try to help to the best of my abillity.

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Windy, the list of 'posisibilites' while not endless are many. All I'm trying to do is point out known and relatively 'Common' (In terms of hundreds if not thousands of motorbikes with similar systems. the commonest issue is plug caps torn by people who know no better, I've done it myself back in '08 on my own bike. That doesn't mean it *is* the issue but next step would be checking the coil feeds etc. and as I said take it to somewhere where they can run the 'Activation' cycle through the ECU and check for errors. If the shop is inexperienced or doesn't have enough instruction in the use of the tooling, (Common.) please ask them to email me and I will try to help to the best of my abillity.

Pete
Click to expand...

Thanks pete. The nearest dealer is 70 miles and £70 away by van so if I can get it running and ride there it will be cheaper for me. Jason at Motostrada lives and breaths italian V twins so I'm confident he'll do a good job. Once running I will have him run a check and set the TB's etc. If I can't sort it my self I will have Jason pick it up and pay the collection fee..

Cheers windy.
 
What a plonker.. Doh!

Confession time... :oops:

Right here goes.. I got the plug out and fitted it to the NGK plug cap, turned the engine over and got a good strong spark so I replaced the plug and the the plug cap, here's the confession, when I fitted the plug caps I also fitted a zip tie to the top of the cap, just under the rubber boot and it turned out the zip fastener was stopping the plug cap going all the way down on to the plug, it felt tight but that was the zip tie jamming it the plug hole. Bugger!

Anyway, I fitted a smaller zip tie, pressed the plug cap all the way, which is further than you think it needs to go but of course they are not meant for the bike so maybe I should have realised. Thumbed the starter and wow did it fire up cleanly... :)

So there you have it, I could have lied but just in case anyone else is doing this mod thought it better to come clean.. ha ha, at least you can't see my red face.. :blush:

Cheers for all the help.

windy
 
Dipstick.... :lol:

Mind you, you're better at fixing clutch slaves at the bottom of mountain passes than I am B)
 
Timothy said:
Dipstick.... :lol:

Mind you, you're better at fixing clutch slaves at the bottom of mountain passes than I am B)
Click to expand...

Good grief.. is that you H??

Good to have you on board... :)
 
af1-windy said:
Timothy said:
Dipstick.... :lol:

Mind you, you're better at fixing clutch slaves at the bottom of mountain passes than I am B)
Click to expand...

Good grief.. is that you H??

Good to have you on board... :)
Click to expand...


Yep, been hovering for a while now. Posted a couple of sly remarks on another thread you started. Wondered how long it'd take you to catch on :p

Looking forward to our jolly April time even if I do have to start by traveling up't nor to the bad lands no doubt in the rain :angry:
 
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