"Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluations

[Greyo]

In the never-ending struggle to find the "perfect" set of tires, I think it could be useful for us Griso owners to be able to compare notes on the performance of different tires we have tried.

Of course, we all know that many variables affect how a tire will perform and how long it will last, including type of tire (sport/race vs. sport/touring), riding style (fast/aggressive vs. slow/relaxed), outside temperature and road surface (smooth vs. rough asphalt), type of road where most mileage takes place (straight freeways vs. mountain twisties) etc.

Further, we also know that the very concept of "perfect tire" is highly subjective; Luigi could be looking just for the stickiest tires on the market allowing him to discover how hard he has to lean on left turns to see the darn side stand sublimate, not caring much if those tires last only 1500 miles. At the other end of the continuum, Guido could be looking only for tires that last the longest, not being interested at all in pretending to ride like a middle-aged Randy Mamola (oops, here I'm showing my age...).

Nonetheless, given that we all ride the same (AWESOME) bike, at least this one important variable is the same for all of us, so I think that comparing notes on tires performance could be informative - as long as enough info on other important variables like riding style preference etc. is also provided.

So, here we (actually, I) go:
My riding style leans on the fast/aggressive side, with most mileage (19,000+ per year, solo, my weight is 160 lbs) ridden up and down the wonderful twisties of the SC, GA, NC and TN Blue Ridge/Smokies/Appalachians.

In my view, the "perfect" tires should a) be sticky enough to allow me to feel safe when leaning hard, b) last as long as possible, and c) offer the best cost/performance. Oh, and I don't care much about performance on wet, as I hate riding when it rains and try to avoid it as much as possible.

I set tire pressure at 36 PSI front, 40 PSI rear (thanks to Mark111 for reminding me of the importance of this info).

So far I have tried three different brands of "Sport-Touring" tires, as follows:

Metzeler Roadtec Z8 Interact Sport Touring
http://www.metzelermoto.com/web/cat...xml&menu_item=/products/catalog/sport_touring
This was the factory-installed set on my G8VSE.
Verdict: very good traction and cornering on dry. Front tire lasted to 4200 mi., with sides wearing out waaaay sooner (and with clear feathering) than the center section. Rear tire made it to 4500 mi. and wore out much more uniformly. No chicken strips to be seen on either tire.

Pirelli Angel Sport Touring
http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/ww/en/motorcycle/sheet/angel_st.html
Verdict: good traction and cornering on dry but quite disappointing mileage; rear tire barely made it to 3000 mi. (center section wore out first). Front tire lasted about 1000 mi. longer, with sides wearing out first. No chicken strips on the rear tire, 1/4 " chicken strip on the left side of the front tire (darn side stand!).

Bridgestone Battlax BT-023-GT Sport Touring
http://www.bridgestone.com/products/motorcycle_tires/products/battlax/bt023.html
Verdict: very good traction and cornering on dry, but disappointing mileage on rear - only 3300 mi. On the other hand, the front tire lasted a whopping (for me, at least) 6300 mi. Both tires wore out fairly uniformly (slightly sooner on the sides), with minimal feathering. No chicken strips on the rear tire, 1/4 " chicken strip on the left side of the front tire.

Thus, so far the "perfect set" for my Griso seems to be:
Front tire: Bridgestone Battlax BT-023-GT Sport Touring
Rear tire: Metzeler Roadtec Z8 Interact Sport Touring

Next, I'll try a set of Michelin Pilot Road 3.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

I don't mind tire threads. Kinda like 'em, actually, even when full of BS -- including mine. :laugh:

Don't mind the subjectivity, either, as "real" tire compos in the mags leave me drowned in stats.

I have a whopping 450 miles on my Griso, so I can't add much yet. My own experiences with the PAST and MZ6 on my Norge, however, do not quite parallel yours. I was sorry to see the latter on my Griso, as I thought them adequate on dry pavement, less but not dangerous in the wet going, and cording in 4K. The PAST did better -- IMO -- in all categories. I ran quite a few MPR2 (and one MPP) on the Norge, and like those lots, especially with a MPP front and MPR2 on back. Someone said here or elsewhere recently that the Metzler and Pirellis are made on same basic "backbone."

Will be curious to read others' posts on this.

Bill

 

[Griso 8V SE]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Hi Greyo and other fellow Griso riders,

I put Michelin Pilot Road 3's from the get go (didn't ride the SE with the Pirelli Scorpions it came with) after riding on Michelin Pilot Road 2's on my Monster.

Have put about 4500km's on them and still have heaps of tread left on them - wearing really well. My riding style - aggressive mostly twisties on coarse roads, Weight - 150kgs (yeah I know a fat bastard), 6 foot 3 in height. I run them at 38psi on the rear and 36psi on the front. They warm up quickly and are regularly over on the edge where the softer compound has not let me down or given me an oh shit moment (yet). They were $500 fitted. I would recommend them to anyone riding a Griso.

 

[Mark111]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Greyo,
Get ready for many opinions which will all be correct.
I'm currently using Metzler M5 Sportec and look like I should get around 10,000 km (6,000 Miles).
They are also excellent in the wet and for my purposes are a great tyre.
Do a bit of scratching and some 2 up touring with moderate loads.
I'm around your weight.
The main point to consider is tyre pressures.
My tyre guru said they should be a bit higher than the factory recommendation.
I run them at 36 F and 40 R normal riding and 38 F and 42 R when 2 up and loaded.
In colder climates than Oz they might need to be a bit lower.

Mark

 

[Pascal]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

The Metzeler that came with the bike on my 8v was shot at 4000 miles!! (6000 for the front one).
That includes the first 1000 miles break in period where you supposed to pamper the bike, lol.
Hate to try that tire now, yikes.

I then installed the Dunlop Roadsmart and stretch it to 8000 miles! Couldn't believe it.
Twice the longevity and the grip was just as good or better.
And guys believe me, I ain't lazy when I ride, lol.
So I went next with the Continental Road Attack (got a set for $90, couldn't pass that up)
Killed that in 6000 miles... The grip is OK on that tire but it takes a short while to break it in, if that makes any sense.
I just came back from the Carolinas trip (from Dahlonega) and installed the Roadsmart again yesterday despite a friend recommending the Pilot 2.
To me, Michelins are overpriced and I can't see that tire lasting longer or gripping better than the Roadsmart for my style of riding.
So the Dunlop is the one for me until someone makes a tire for the same price and performance that will last longer, which isn't likely.

 

[Greyo]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

...Someone said here or elsewhere recently that the Metzler and Pirellis are made on same basic "backbone." Will be curious to read others' posts on this.

Hey Bill,
About the Metzeler-Pirelli thing, what you say is quite possible given that Pirelli owns Metzeler (note that Metzeler's web link I posted above contains Italian words).

 

[double.d]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

I've had a few sets of Pilot Road 2's, a set of Pilot Powers, a few sets of Pilot Power Race, and now a set of Pirelli Diablo's and i can honestly say thet apart from the Power Races i realy can't tell the difference between tyres once i have a few hundred k's on them. I'm no boulevarde cruiser so 100% of my riding is done up in the hills going as hard and fast as i can, and the only thing that slow's me down is wet roads.

What i can tell you though is that when your suspension is set correctly your view on a paticular tyre will change. To give an example, i was destroying tyres (cooking them, they were turning blue) by running to higher pressures. I was doing this because of the feedback the tyres were giving me. I pumped them up till they felt good and secure.

When i had the suspension professionaly tuned it felt like i was riding on the rims with those same pressures.
I now run maximum 33psi front and 36psi rear and am getting far greater feedback from the tyres than i was before.

We all think 190 profile tyres are cool and look good.......... right, from the mouth of the suspension tech guy "your riding a fucking Guzzi, not an R1. Go back to a 180", which i did, for the exercise. The Griso now turns in quicker and feels more stable both upright and leaned over.

Knock and mock me if you will, but i am expressing facts, tried and tested. Do yourselves a favour and forget the tyre talk until your suspension is sorted.

 

[Pascal]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Double d,
I didn't know you could fit a 190 back there...
I thought it would rub against the CARC unit because there isn't a lot of clearance as it is with the 180.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

I've had a few sets of Pilot Road 2's, a set of Pilot Powers, a few sets of Pilot Power Race, and now a set of Pirelli Diablo's and i can honestly say thet apart from the Power Races i realy can't tell the difference between tyres once i have a few hundred k's on them. I'm no boulevarde cruiser so 100% of my riding is done up in the hills going as hard and fast as i can, and the only thing that slow's me down is wet roads.

What i can tell you though is that when your suspension is set correctly your view on a paticular tyre will change. To give an example, i was destroying tyres (cooking them, they were turning blue) by running to higher pressures. I was doing this because of the feedback the tyres were giving me. I pumped them up till they felt good and secure.

When i had the suspension professionaly tuned it felt like i was riding on the rims with those same pressures.
I now run maximum 33psi front and 36psi rear and am getting far greater feedback from the tyres than i was before.

We all think 190 profile tyres are cool and look good.......... right, from the mouth of the suspension tech guy "your riding a fucking Guzzi, not an R1. Go back to a 180", which i did, for the exercise. The Griso now turns in quicker and feels more stable both upright and leaned over.




Knock and mock me if you will, but i am expressing facts, tried and tested. Do yourselves a favour and forget the tyre talk until your suspension is sorted.

No, no knocking. I think your points are well taken, especially that of the almost astonishing difference that air pressure and properly tuned suspension make on tire performance and seat-of-the-pants impressions.

Only two quibbles.

First, I cannot imagine how a wider rear improves anything beyond "looking cool." Pete Roper persuaded me years ago of the handling advantages of a narrower rear, and it pains me to say how right he was.

And, while I agree that most tire impressions are likely pretty darn subjective, I have to say that when I had Pilot Powers on front and back of Norge, I was invincible. Rossi would have faded in my mirrors. :laugh:

Seriously, I am not sure at what lean angle I would have fallen off, but my, oh my, those were sticky tires in wet and dry. Unfortunately, the price was sub-3K rear miles. Yikes. :woohoo:

Bill

 

[double.d]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Double d,
I didn't know you could fit a 190 back there...
I thought it would rub against the CARC unit because there isn't a lot of clearance as it is with the 180.

The 1100 come std with 190, i am sure the 8V would as well............. aren't i

 

[double.d]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

I've had a few sets of Pilot Road 2's, a set of Pilot Powers, a few sets of Pilot Power Race, and now a set of Pirelli Diablo's and i can honestly say thet apart from the Power Races i realy can't tell the difference between tyres once i have a few hundred k's on them. I'm no boulevarde cruiser so 100% of my riding is done up in the hills going as hard and fast as i can, and the only thing that slow's me down is wet roads.

What i can tell you though is that when your suspension is set correctly your view on a paticular tyre will change. To give an example, i was destroying tyres (cooking them, they were turning blue) by running to higher pressures. I was doing this because of the feedback the tyres were giving me. I pumped them up till they felt good and secure.

When i had the suspension professionaly tuned it felt like i was riding on the rims with those same pressures.
I now run maximum 33psi front and 36psi rear and am getting far greater feedback from the tyres than i was before.

We all think 190 profile tyres are cool and look good.......... right, from the mouth of the suspension tech guy "your riding a fucking Guzzi, not an R1. Go back to a 180", which i did, for the exercise. The Griso now turns in quicker and feels more stable both upright and leaned over.




Knock and mock me if you will, but i am expressing facts, tried and tested. Do yourselves a favour and forget the tyre talk until your suspension is sorted.

No, no knocking. I think your points are well taken, especially that of the almost astonishing difference that air pressure and properly tuned suspension make on tire performance and seat-of-the-pants impressions.

Only two quibbles.

First, I cannot imagine how a wider rear improves anything beyond "looking cool." Pete Roper persuaded me years ago of the handling advantages of a narrower rear, and it pains me to say how right he was.

And, while I agree that most tire impressions are likely pretty darn subjective, I have to say that when I had Pilot Powers on front and back of Norge, I was invincible. Rossi would have faded in my mirrors. :laugh:

Seriously, I am not sure at what lean angle I would have fallen off, but my, oh my, those were sticky tires in wet and dry. Unfortunately, the price was sub-3K rear miles. Yikes. :woohoo:

Bill

Bill, i am agreeing with your first quibble. I'm sure that's how i typed it
If you think the Pilot Powers are good, as i do, you wanna try the Power Races. With very little tread i could get them looking like they had just done a Grand Prix race after a spirited ride through the hills. And they were good in the wet as well. But at $400 i could'nt justify a set every 3-4000klm.

I can still get the same lean angles on the Pirelli's, just not the same feedback. Anyway, if we leave the track day type tyres out of the equation the others to me are much the much.

 

[Pascal]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Double d,
I didn't know you could fit a 190 back there...
I thought it would rub against the CARC unit because there isn't a lot of clearance as it is with the 180.

The 1100 come std with 190, i am sure the 8V would as well............. aren't i

Wut??!!

Both my 07 and 09 came with 180. :huh:
You guys are confusing me, lol.

 

[Greyo]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Double d,
I didn't know you could fit a 190 back there...
I thought it would rub against the CARC unit because there isn't a lot of clearance as it is with the 180.

The 1100 come std with 190...

Not in the US - see official Guzzi site:

http://www.motoguzzi-us.com/en_US/prodo ... cnica.aspx

 

[Phang]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

We get 180 rear tyre in Asia :mrgreen:

Griso 1100 Specifications

Phang

 

[Greyo]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

...When i had the suspension professionaly tuned it felt like i was riding on the rims with those same pressures.
I now run maximum 33psi front and 36psi rear and am getting far greater feedback from the tyres than i was before...

OK, but are you also getting significantly better mileage? If yes, can you give us an estimate of how many more miles you get out of the same type of tire with the new suspensions settings and lower tire pressure?

...Do yourselves a favour and forget the tyre talk until your suspension is sorted.

I get your point, but maybe some Griso owners are just fine with the factory settings for their suspensions...

 

[GuzziMoto]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

I am pretty sure my '07 Griso 1100 came with a 180 on the rear. It was the Metzler sport tire that everyone else seemed to hate. I did not mind it and even though I ride quick enough (part time racer) I still got 6k plus miles out of it. And I also run pressures lower then many here, 32 - 34 front and 34 - 36 rear.
I agree that setting up the suspension correctly is huge. I think riding technique and suspension set up both play large rolls in tire wear and feel. It doesn't just directly affects the tire, it affects how much much air pressure you run, which in turn changes the way the tire works and how it feels.
In the end tires are very much a matter of personal taste. Some people love Bridgestones, I can't stand them. There are a few tires I have used that were good, but typically for me the tried and true favorite is Michelin. They always seem to work the way I want them to. I have not tried the Pilot Pure yet but I will. I have used Conti's, Maxxis, Pirelli, Bridgestone, Metzler, and Dunlop. The Bridgestones were the only ones that I did not like, but the Dunlops have never been a favorite of mine. I prefer the Michelin front. But the key phrase there is "I prefer". Aside from the Shinko's and what not most tires are fine, they will work at least reasonably well. You may prefer one over another but someone else may not share your preferences because of the way they ride, the way they set up their bike, the air pressures they ride, or even the roads they ride on.
Asking other opinions is fine, but in the end it comes down to you and what you like.

 

[double.d]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

...When i had the suspension professionaly tuned it felt like i was riding on the rims with those same pressures.
I now run maximum 33psi front and 36psi rear and am getting far greater feedback from the tyres than i was before...

OK, but are you also getting significantly better mileage? If yes, can you give us an estimate of how many more miles you get out of the same type of tire with the new suspensions settings and lower tire pressure?

Can't say if i'm getting more or not as i don't gauge a tyre on how many k's i can get out of it. My tyres wear out on the sides before the centre. I just change them when i think they need changing

...Do yourselves a favour and forget the tyre talk until your suspension is sorted.

I get your point, but maybe some Griso owners are just fine with the factory settings for their suspensions...

Yes, good point, some owners would be, as i was. I went to the suspension tech on a whim cause a mate of mine was going to get his R1 done, and for $100 i thought why not. the difference it made was amazing and i was a bit embarrassed to think that after owning bikes for nearly 40 years i could not work out some simple suspension settings

 

[double.d]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Double d,
I didn't know you could fit a 190 back there...
I thought it would rub against the CARC unit because there isn't a lot of clearance as it is with the 180.

The 1100 come std with 190, i am sure the 8V would as well............. aren't i

Wut??!!

Both my 07 and 09 came with 180. :huh:
You guys are confusing me, lol.

Well, now i'm confused so i'll have to check it out. I'm fairly ??????? certain i never went up a size, but hey that was 5 years ago.
Did your 07 come with Rensports ?

 

[rocker59]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

Your Grisos are running 5.5" rear wheels.

If you really want to improve turn-in, try a 170/60-17 rear.

If you want 10,000 miles life out of a rear, try a Metzeller ME880 Radial in 170/60-17.

 

[Greyo]

Re: "Perfect" tires for Griso: personal impressions/evaluati

OK, but are you also getting significantly better mileage? If yes, can you give us an estimate of how many more miles you get out of the same type of tire with the new suspensions settings and lower tire pressure?

Can't say if i'm getting more or not as i don't gauge a tyre on how many k's i can get out of it. My tyres wear out on the sides before the centre. I just change them when i think they need changing.

OK, mileage isn't important for you, fair enough... but I'm sure you can appreciate that it may be important for others. In my case, given that I'm happy with the way the suspensions are set up on my Griso, unless I see convincing evidence that setting them up differently would also significantly increase the tires' life, why should I bother?