What are you using in your V100?
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Premium or regular gasoline?
- Thread starter 1Danedaddy
- Start date
In Sweden we only have 95 and 98 octane, so I guess both is considered premium for you US guys?
Anyway, for the long Norway trip last summer I tried to compare 95 with 98, but didn’t see any noticeable difference.
Otherwise the discussions here amongst bikers are whether the bikes gets better mileage with 98 octane or not.
Seems like no real conclusion though, so might be different for each bike.
Anyway, for the long Norway trip last summer I tried to compare 95 with 98, but didn’t see any noticeable difference.
Otherwise the discussions here amongst bikers are whether the bikes gets better mileage with 98 octane or not.
Seems like no real conclusion though, so might be different for each bike.
Florida lime
Tuned and Synch'ed
Because octane is measured differently here in the US, your 95 and 98 rating is the equivalent to 91 and 93 octane here.
I usually use 90 octane no-ethanol fuel in my V100S, and I have used the 93 no-ethanol as well. If I'm not near a no-ethanol source, I use either the 89 octane midgrade or usually the 92 octane premium (10% ethanol).
I've never noticed any difference between any of them.
As octane ratings are only useful in selecting a fuel that is more resistant to detonation, I stick to the minimum octane rating that any of my particular motorcycles requires. I used to burn the most premium fuel I could obtain and in truth, I found literally no difference either mileage wise or performance wise whatsoever. Even my Ural sidecar rig, which weights above 1400 lbs with fuel and riders, runs just great on regular unleaded fuel. It's 41 horsepower pulls great and even ascending steep incline roads, it never pings with detonation.
Compression ratio on the V100 is 12.6:1 - which is quite high. With our garbage fuel here in the States, I personally would only run the highest available at the pump, and I’d pour in some ethanol treatment/combatant if it’s sitting for anything over a few weeks.
I have found that modern fuel injected engines with oxygen (lamda) sensors (motorcycles, cars, and SUVs) get better mileage on lower octane gasoline (at least the various oxygenated blends was have in Phoenix). Premium is formulated to reduce detonation which makes it burn slightly “slower” so the ECU (engine control unit) thinks the mixture is lean and injects slightly more fuel.
We used premium in our cars for a month 25 years ago when a new gas station opened near our house and it offered premium for the same price as regular. I noticed a 5% to 10% drop in fuel mileage that month on both cars, but fuel consumption returned to normal after we switched back to regular.
I normally use what the engine manufacturer recommends so usually regular in cars and premium in high-compression motorcycles. I don’t want to risk engine damage from pinging on high compression engines in high ambient temperatures.
We used premium in our cars for a month 25 years ago when a new gas station opened near our house and it offered premium for the same price as regular. I noticed a 5% to 10% drop in fuel mileage that month on both cars, but fuel consumption returned to normal after we switched back to regular.
I normally use what the engine manufacturer recommends so usually regular in cars and premium in high-compression motorcycles. I don’t want to risk engine damage from pinging on high compression engines in high ambient temperatures.
What was the compression ratio and power output of these engines?
In my driving and major towing experiences with my Transit van with the twin turbo 3.5L V6, all over the Western USA for well over 100k miles, 89 (when higher octane wasn’t available) produced a non-stop detonation and the worst mileage ever. I’ll never run lower than 91 if I can at all help it. I can get 100 at a select few stations here in LA, and it’s impressive (with motorcycles) on the dyno.
I always use premium (no ethanol if possible). That said, I was traveling last summer with a buddy, and we were in the middle of nowhere, and I was down to when the “miles to gas pump” did its switch to odometer counting “up” (if you’ve run the tank low, you know what I’m talking about
)… I thought I’d probably run out - as I approached “40 miles,” but we ran upon a little station that only had regular… I filled up. The bike ran just fine, and if I’m not mistaken, I think I got more than my typical mileage out of that tank full… point being, I didn’t otherwise see/hear/feel any significant difference. 
)… I thought I’d probably run out - as I approached “40 miles,” but we ran upon a little station that only had regular… I filled up. The bike ran just fine, and if I’m not mistaken, I think I got more than my typical mileage out of that tank full… point being, I didn’t otherwise see/hear/feel any significant difference. umtys
Tuned and Synch'ed
Besides being higher octane, fuel that is called premium has some extra additives thet keeps fuel line clean here in Turkey. You can not have it in regular 95 octane.
All of the major brands of gasolines in the USA claim that their premium fuel has extra cleansers, and upper cylinder lubricants etc.
93 octane.
Oh, you have pressed my “Super Nerd Scientist” button and I love stuff like this. 12+ years of biology, chemistry and biochemistry BS, MS, PhD studies did this to me.
Hang on!
One of my friends is a retired chemical engineer who spent his career making fuels.
What you all are describing is called “the additive” package which refiners add to the processed fuel (finished gasoline) before delivery to the brand distributor.
He told me that regular, mid-grade, and premium grade fuels all contain the same baseline detergents “additive package”. It’s required BY LAW and the refiners and distributors have no choice but to comply with the law regarding this. They may add a token amount of one or more additives but if your concentration is say 2 ppm and you rise to 4ppm, yes you now have “double the cleaning power!” even though the additional amount added above the required EPA concentration, is minuscule and superfluous.
Only the octane rating or anti-detonation index, is different and this is what costs more, more refining. Regardless the additive package is expressed in parts per million (ppm) so we are talking minuscule amounts of additional beneficial additives.
People think that “premium” is somehow “better” or has “more stuff” in it but this is almost always universally untrue. The term “premium” was a marketing ploy. There is literally nothing “premium” about it, except the $$$.
Originally it was called “high test” which was a more accurate description of what it really was, higher octane rating for resisting detonation, and this term was first used in, are you sitting down, 1869. That’s right, “octane rating” was a recognized chemical term related to the gasoline fraction of petroleum chemistry since 1869, 5 years after the end of the civil war and 23 years before the first automobile was built! Wow!
My friend also taught me that the truly highly-regulated fuel is aviation fuels which do not have any of these bullshit marketing terms and crap which are prohibited by law.
Aviation fuel and gasoline are very different for multiple reasons. For example, aviation fuels must meet strict requirements for flying characteristics such as flashpoint and freezing point, while auto gas is made to run through catalytic converters for pollution reduction, along with other factors.
There are four main types of aviation fuel:
- Jet fuel (called Jet A-1 or kerosene)
- Kerosene-gasoline mixture (Jet B)
- Aviation gasoline (avgas)
- Biokerosene
————————
Gasoline was initially discarded
Edwin Drake dug the first crude oil well in Pennsylvania in 1859 and distilled the oil to produce kerosene for lighting. Although other petroleum products, including gasoline, were also produced in the distillation process, Drake had no use for the gasoline and other products, so he discarded them. It wasn't until 1892, with the invention of the automobile, that gasoline was recognized as a valuable fuel. By 1920, 9 million vehicles powered by gasoline were on the road, and service stations selling gasoline were opening around the country. Today, gasoline is the fuel for nearly all light-duty vehicles in the United States.——————————
United States Environmental Protection Agency
Office of Air and Radiation
Office of Transportation and Air Quality
Transportation and Regional Programs Division (Mail Code 6406J)
Washington, DC 20460-0001
All gasoline and diesel motor vehicle fuel additives are required to be registered in accordance with the regulations at 40CFR 79. Gasolines are required to contain detergent additives which have been certified in accordance with the regulations at 40 CFR 80, Subpart G.
Lists of registered gasoline and diesel additives, and certified gasoline detergent additives, are available from the above and at Registered Fuels & Fuel Additives Under 40 CFR Part 79. The regulations are available from the Government Printing Office's GPO Access Service at http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ECFR?page=browse. For information about GPO Access call the GPO User Support Team at (888) 293-6498 (toll free) or (202) 512-1530.
————————-
Motor gasoline (finished): A complex mixture of relatively volatile hydrocarbons with or without small quantities of additives, blended to form a fuel suitable for use in spark-ignition engines. Motor gasoline, as defined in ASTM Specification D 4814 or Federal Specification VV-G-1690C, is characterized as having a boiling range of 122 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit at the 10 percent recovery point to 365 to 374 degrees Fahrenheit at the 90 percent recovery point. Motor Gasoline includes conventional gasoline; all types of oxygenated gasoline, including gasohol; and reformulated gasoline, but excludes aviation gasoline. Note: Volumetric data on blending components, such as oxygenates, are not counted in data on finished motor gasoline until the blending components are blended into the gasoline.
Motor gasoline blending: Mechanical mixing of motor gasoline blending components, and oxygenates when required, to produce finished motor gasoline. Finished motor gasoline may be further mixed with other motor gasoline blending components or oxygenates, resulting in increased volumes of finished motor gasoline and/or changes in the formulation of finished motor gasoline (e.g., conventional motor gasoline mixed with MTBE to produce oxygenated motor gasoline).
Motor gasoline blending components: Naphthas (e.g., straight-run gasoline, alkylate, reformate, benzene, toluene, xylene) used for blending or compounding into finished motor gasoline. These components include reformulated gasoline blend stock for oxygenate blending (RBOB) but exclude oxygenates (alcohols, ethers), butane, and pentanes plus. Note Oxygenates are reported as individual components and are included in the total for other hydrocarbons, hydrogens, and oxygenates.
—————————
The complexity of additives can be seen in USEPA’s additive registration form, which
lists 50 purposes for gasoline additives (http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/forms/3520-13.pdf).
These include detergents, anti-oxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and anti-icing
agents, among many others. The concentrations of these additives in gasolines can range from
low parts per million (ppm) to low percent levels. For comparison, benzene in reformulated
gasoline is currently limited to less than 1 percent or 7,500 ppm; much higher than the majority
of additives. The chemical classes of additives include petroleum fractions, low molecular
weight alcohols, complex binders, organometallic compounds, surfactants, and polymers (VFJ,
2006). “Classic” additives, as defined by VFJ are those with known chemical, toxicological,
and environmental risk properties. These tend to be compounds that have been used in gasolines
over a long period of time, while newer compounds tend to be surfactants, polymers, and
organometallics (VFJ, 2006).
Last edited:
Damn Scott! You beat me to it, THATS exactly what I was going to post!!!
Good, informative information!Oh, you have pressed my “Super Nerd Scientist” button and I love stuff like this. 12+ years of biology, chemistry and biochemistry BS, MS, PhD studies did this to me.
Hang on!
One of my friends is a retired chemical engineer who spent his career making fuels.
What you all are describing is called “the additive” package which refiners add to the processed fuel (finished gasoline) before delivery to the brand distributor.
He told me that regular, mid-grade, and premium grade fuels all contain the same baseline detergents “additive package”. It’s required BY LAW and the refiners and distributors have no choice but to comply with the law regarding this. They may add a token amount of one or more additives but if your concentration is say 2 ppm and you rise to 4ppm, yes you now have “double the cleaning power!” even though the additional amount added above the required EPA concentration, is minuscule and superfluous.
Only the octane rating or anti-detonation index, is different and this is what costs more, more refining. Regardless the additive package is expressed in parts per million (ppm) so we are talking minuscule amounts of additional beneficial additives.
People think that “premium” is somehow “better” or has “more stuff” in it but this is almost always universally untrue. The term “premium” was a marketing ploy. There is literally nothing “premium” about it, except the $$$.
Originally it was called “high test” which was a more accurate description of what it really was, higher octane rating for resisting detonation, and this term was first used in, are you sitting down, 1869. That’s right, “octane rating” was a recognized chemical term related to the gasoline fraction of petroleum chemistry since 1869, 5 years after the end of the civil war and 23 years before the first automobile was built! Wow!
My friend also taught me that the truly highly-regulated fuel is aviation fuels which do not have any of these bullshit marketing terms and crap which are prohibited by law.
Aviation fuel and gasoline are very different for multiple reasons. For example, aviation fuels must meet strict requirements for flying characteristics such as flashpoint and freezing point, while auto gas is made to run through catalytic converters for pollution reduction, along with other factors.
There are four main types of aviation fuel:
Aviation gas still contains tetra-ethyl lead additives to lubricate the engine.
- Jet fuel (called Jet A-1 or kerosene)
- Kerosene-gasoline mixture (Jet B)
- Aviation gasoline (avgas)
- Biokerosene
————————
Gasoline was initially discarded
Edwin Drake dug the first crude oil well in Pennsylvania in 1859 and distilled the oil to produce kerosene for lighting. Although other petroleum products, including gasoline, were also produced in the distillation process, Drake had no use for the gasoline and other products, so he discarded them. It wasn't until 1892, with the invention of the automobile, that gasoline was recognized as a valuable fuel. By 1920, 9 million vehicles powered by gasoline were on the road, and service stations selling gasoline were opening around the country. Today, gasoline is the fuel for nearly all light-duty vehicles in the United States.
——————————
United States Environmental Protection Agency
Office of Air and Radiation
Office of Transportation and Air Quality
Transportation and Regional Programs Division (Mail Code 6406J)
Washington, DC 20460-0001
All gasoline and diesel motor vehicle fuel additives are required to be registered in accordance with the regulations at 40CFR 79. Gasolines are required to contain detergent additives which have been certified in accordance with the regulations at 40 CFR 80, Subpart G.
Lists of registered gasoline and diesel additives, and certified gasoline detergent additives, are available from the above and at Registered Fuels & Fuel Additives Under 40 CFR Part 79. The regulations are available from the Government Printing Office's GPO Access Service at http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ECFR?page=browse. For information about GPO Access call the GPO User Support Team at (888) 293-6498 (toll free) or (202) 512-1530.
————————-
Motor gasoline (finished): A complex mixture of relatively volatile hydrocarbons with or without small quantities of additives, blended to form a fuel suitable for use in spark-ignition engines. Motor gasoline, as defined in ASTM Specification D 4814 or Federal Specification VV-G-1690C, is characterized as having a boiling range of 122 to 158 degrees Fahrenheit at the 10 percent recovery point to 365 to 374 degrees Fahrenheit at the 90 percent recovery point. Motor Gasoline includes conventional gasoline; all types of oxygenated gasoline, including gasohol; and reformulated gasoline, but excludes aviation gasoline. Note: Volumetric data on blending components, such as oxygenates, are not counted in data on finished motor gasoline until the blending components are blended into the gasoline.
Motor gasoline blending: Mechanical mixing of motor gasoline blending components, and oxygenates when required, to produce finished motor gasoline. Finished motor gasoline may be further mixed with other motor gasoline blending components or oxygenates, resulting in increased volumes of finished motor gasoline and/or changes in the formulation of finished motor gasoline (e.g., conventional motor gasoline mixed with MTBE to produce oxygenated motor gasoline).
Motor gasoline blending components: Naphthas (e.g., straight-run gasoline, alkylate, reformate, benzene, toluene, xylene) used for blending or compounding into finished motor gasoline. These components include reformulated gasoline blend stock for oxygenate blending (RBOB) but exclude oxygenates (alcohols, ethers), butane, and pentanes plus. Note Oxygenates are reported as individual components and are included in the total for other hydrocarbons, hydrogens, and oxygenates.
—————————
The complexity of additives can be seen in USEPA’s additive registration form, which
lists 50 purposes for gasoline additives (http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/forms/3520-13.pdf).
These include detergents, anti-oxidants, metal deactivators, corrosion inhibitors, and anti-icing
agents, among many others. The concentrations of these additives in gasolines can range from
low parts per million (ppm) to low percent levels. For comparison, benzene in reformulated
gasoline is currently limited to less than 1 percent or 7,500 ppm; much higher than the majority
of additives. The chemical classes of additives include petroleum fractions, low molecular
weight alcohols, complex binders, organometallic compounds, surfactants, and polymers (VFJ,
2006). “Classic” additives, as defined by VFJ are those with known chemical, toxicological,
and environmental risk properties. These tend to be compounds that have been used in gasolines
over a long period of time, while newer compounds tend to be surfactants, polymers, and
organometallics (VFJ, 2006).
I believe that the owner's manual recommends premium, or what would be the equivalent to 91 octane (95 RON) here in the USA.
I asked Scotty Kilmer this same question and he said I should use premium.
Thank you very much.
. I feel that you should use whatever you feel comfortable with.Agreed.Thank you very much.
I’ll probably experiment and then go with whatever is the most economical. Most likely I will not notice any difference because I’m not sure if I’ll even get pure premium from the one hose pumps that are everywhere now.
I’m far from being wealthy.
Me too.
Scott, are you saying that all fuel grades contain the (same) additive packages required by law, or that they all contain AT LEAST the additives required by law? I was under the impression that companies could add more additives than required by law, as indicated by the Top Tier companies. I also thought that they could market their higher octane fuels for having more additives than the low grade fuels.
All grade gasoline motor fuels are required by law to have a specified minimum of detergent additives. This is what the overwhelming majority of refiners add; the minimum specified amounts.
My friend the retired petroleum chemical engineer, told me that almost without exception, the additive package used on the various grades refined by a particular company, is virtually the same. From the research I have done, I have found this to be the case.
Some of the major companies, use “fuzzy math” like I said earlier. If regular unleaded contains 5ppm of an additive and premium contains 10ppm, it does in fact have double the amount but that extra does absolutely nothing extra really.
The term “premium “ is marketing smoke and mirrors.
The bottom line here is to use the fuel that you feel most comfortable with.
I am advocating nothing but that. I just like information and wanted to share what has been shared with me.
Whatever fuel you select, just be sure you are not experiencing detonation as that will destroy an engine faster than anything.
umtys
Tuned and Synch'ed
Here is a good research aaa did
www.consumerreports.org
Top Tier Gasoline Worth the Extra Price, Study Shows - Consumer Reports
A study by AAA shows that Top Tier gasoline is worth the extra cost to consumers. Consumer Reports lists car brands that recommend Top Tier gasoline and gas stations where you can buy Top Tier gas.