Race tech has a dims sheet for replacement springs. Has anyone done this already?
http://www.racetech.com/download/SkSpringFit.pdf
DW
http://www.racetech.com/download/SkSpringFit.pdf
DW
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Race tech rear spring for Griso
- Thread starter guzziownr
- Start date
Dave, I'm a dealer for RaceTech products. No one I know of has done this yet. Happy to get you the spring if you want to try it. While you have it off, I recommend having it re-valved, as for your stature, it'll be worth the $ for riding in NYC. The valving is on the race side of things from the factory.
Heh, well you could just save yourself a boatload of hassle and buy a new shock. :huh:guzziownr said:
Link to removal; https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/163/8983#p68261
Ahh, that's the one. I won't be pulling the shock until September because the bike will be vacationing with Blackcat for the month of August.
If I lived near you I would leave it in your driveway with a wad of 100's tucked under the seat.
That would be my way of avoiding the aforementioned "boatload".
DW
If I lived near you I would leave it in your driveway with a wad of 100's tucked under the seat.
That would be my way of avoiding the aforementioned "boatload".
DW
Re: Race tech rear spring for Griso Rambling Notes:R
Just a heads up on the re-spring, and the re-valve on the sachs (yeah I've done it), On the stella and the griso, 800lb and up 2.25" id springs will not fit in between the frame cross member and the swing arm. (84mm max). This means the race tech springs, penske springs, hypercoil springs above 800lb do not fit. There are some higher rate shock springs in the Racetech catalog that will work. The problem is that Guzzi is unique in the amount of clearance around the rear shock. It is a tighter fit than any bike I have seen, I stopped in at Traxxion Dynamics to go through their springs to find one that would fit.
I wound up using a hypercoil goldwing 1000lb spring, it is 6mm shorter, smaller in dia by 4mm and has 1.5 fewer coils than a stock 2.25" spring. that allows the coil openings to nest with the swing arm, and frame tube. (I added a spacer to fix the length issue)
The valving will need updating, the compression will need to be reduced a bit (it is too little with the stock spring, when a lot of preload is used to get the sag close, and too much when the correct spring is used with low preload to get the correct sag) but the rebound will be good with a stout rear spring (it is way too slow stock that is why many run basically with the adjuster all the way out 40+ clicks out) That slowness goes away the heavier the rear spring gets. You have the rebound stack right if you run the shock about 14-18 clicks out.
correct oil for the rebuild is 7.5wt ( I used silkolene)
the correct pressure for the Sachs is 180lbs.psi dry nitrogen.
Best to get a good shock built, I however am a little skeptical of the Penske Factory build sheet , The penske that I tried in the griso (with a 900lb spring) would not fit between the swing arm and frame(this was built for an 8v Griso by Penske according to the official build sheet), and the spring could not be clocked to make it clear. (ditto for the Stelvio the shock was the wrong length but I tried it for fit anyway) I am thinking that Matris must use a 56-57mm spring on their shocks, however their info says 60mm id.
Racetech has some 56-57mm springs that will work on a std penske shock body. it is tight and the rates are a bit odd, but they allow the fit of some springs in the 800-950lb range, and if ya need a 1 k then the GW spring works.
If ya have a grand to spend get a Matris K, if ya have 1700 get an R, if ya have 1500 get a penske(I probably would recommend them because ANY suspension shop can re-build and refine the tune with a Penske)
If you are on a budget you can re-valve and spring at TD for $350. Not as good as the above but it is as good as an emulsion Penske, and fades less when run hard. (the Sachs factory shock in the Griso when tuned is about equal to a twin clicker penske, on the shock dyno, and much less likely to leak)
When ya get to the front end ANY body that is good with a 43mm KYB usd fork can do the magic. spring and valve with new valves at TD is $750. AK -20 cartriges $1099, Matris S carts $1000 ( i really want to try a set of these, to be better than ak20s is a tall order) The bonus of the ak-20 is that if you sell your Griso, you can put your stock internals back in, and re-use your ak-20s in another bike (TD reconfigs their carts. for $200). Then if ya want the bomb, the AK Gas cart is like a dream ( I have reen running them in a gsxr 1k, and they be like butta) but are $2000. Really they were a tone easier to get to work than the last set of bp ohlins I had to fight with, to get set up on a Millie(and in the end still chattered a little on the see god then brake turns)
Honestly the front end on the griso 8v, is pretty good, the factory settings are shite, but the fork is basically very sound. I have to agree with others, on the tire pressure thing the Griso needs to run lower than spec for good handling and grip. The fork needs to heat a little, and warm up but this is common with a kyb type fork. If you put carts. in the having to heat goes away.
ps any spring set for the 43mm kyb usd fits and works in the 8vse griso front end) this is good as rates are avail up to 1.2kg, TD omni springs are very nice as they do not rub on the fork tubes and contaminate the oil like most spring sets. I however am very partial to sonic springs, they are really consistent about their rate steps as they only buy from 1 spring maker. Some other folks use several vendors and youll buy a 1.0 kg set then buy a 1.1kg set measure the rate and they will be the same :shock: (the two vendors do not measure the same way) Hint hint the better springs have the rates engraved on their ends, not stamped in ink on their sides.
I also did not have any trouble raising ( I made a taller rear perch) for the sachs, in raising the rear about 13mm. and dropping the front 1 line really sharpened the handling. point is shock len. adj is nice.
Just a heads up on the re-spring, and the re-valve on the sachs (yeah I've done it), On the stella and the griso, 800lb and up 2.25" id springs will not fit in between the frame cross member and the swing arm. (84mm max). This means the race tech springs, penske springs, hypercoil springs above 800lb do not fit. There are some higher rate shock springs in the Racetech catalog that will work. The problem is that Guzzi is unique in the amount of clearance around the rear shock. It is a tighter fit than any bike I have seen, I stopped in at Traxxion Dynamics to go through their springs to find one that would fit.
I wound up using a hypercoil goldwing 1000lb spring, it is 6mm shorter, smaller in dia by 4mm and has 1.5 fewer coils than a stock 2.25" spring. that allows the coil openings to nest with the swing arm, and frame tube. (I added a spacer to fix the length issue)
The valving will need updating, the compression will need to be reduced a bit (it is too little with the stock spring, when a lot of preload is used to get the sag close, and too much when the correct spring is used with low preload to get the correct sag) but the rebound will be good with a stout rear spring (it is way too slow stock that is why many run basically with the adjuster all the way out 40+ clicks out) That slowness goes away the heavier the rear spring gets. You have the rebound stack right if you run the shock about 14-18 clicks out.
correct oil for the rebuild is 7.5wt ( I used silkolene)
the correct pressure for the Sachs is 180lbs.psi dry nitrogen.
Best to get a good shock built, I however am a little skeptical of the Penske Factory build sheet , The penske that I tried in the griso (with a 900lb spring) would not fit between the swing arm and frame(this was built for an 8v Griso by Penske according to the official build sheet), and the spring could not be clocked to make it clear. (ditto for the Stelvio the shock was the wrong length but I tried it for fit anyway) I am thinking that Matris must use a 56-57mm spring on their shocks, however their info says 60mm id.
Racetech has some 56-57mm springs that will work on a std penske shock body. it is tight and the rates are a bit odd, but they allow the fit of some springs in the 800-950lb range, and if ya need a 1 k then the GW spring works.
If ya have a grand to spend get a Matris K, if ya have 1700 get an R, if ya have 1500 get a penske(I probably would recommend them because ANY suspension shop can re-build and refine the tune with a Penske)
If you are on a budget you can re-valve and spring at TD for $350. Not as good as the above but it is as good as an emulsion Penske, and fades less when run hard. (the Sachs factory shock in the Griso when tuned is about equal to a twin clicker penske, on the shock dyno, and much less likely to leak)
When ya get to the front end ANY body that is good with a 43mm KYB usd fork can do the magic. spring and valve with new valves at TD is $750. AK -20 cartriges $1099, Matris S carts $1000 ( i really want to try a set of these, to be better than ak20s is a tall order) The bonus of the ak-20 is that if you sell your Griso, you can put your stock internals back in, and re-use your ak-20s in another bike (TD reconfigs their carts. for $200). Then if ya want the bomb, the AK Gas cart is like a dream ( I have reen running them in a gsxr 1k, and they be like butta) but are $2000. Really they were a tone easier to get to work than the last set of bp ohlins I had to fight with, to get set up on a Millie(and in the end still chattered a little on the see god then brake turns)
Honestly the front end on the griso 8v, is pretty good, the factory settings are shite, but the fork is basically very sound. I have to agree with others, on the tire pressure thing the Griso needs to run lower than spec for good handling and grip. The fork needs to heat a little, and warm up but this is common with a kyb type fork. If you put carts. in the having to heat goes away.
ps any spring set for the 43mm kyb usd fits and works in the 8vse griso front end) this is good as rates are avail up to 1.2kg, TD omni springs are very nice as they do not rub on the fork tubes and contaminate the oil like most spring sets. I however am very partial to sonic springs, they are really consistent about their rate steps as they only buy from 1 spring maker. Some other folks use several vendors and youll buy a 1.0 kg set then buy a 1.1kg set measure the rate and they will be the same :shock: (the two vendors do not measure the same way) Hint hint the better springs have the rates engraved on their ends, not stamped in ink on their sides.
I also did not have any trouble raising ( I made a taller rear perch) for the sachs, in raising the rear about 13mm. and dropping the front 1 line really sharpened the handling. point is shock len. adj is nice.
PS, If ya don't want your rear shock to leak RUN A SHOCK SOCK, and better than that a hugger and a shock sock :!:
Yeah I know cover up the expensive bling with a sock, Better than a re-build and a scored shock shaft.
Ps if you are changing the spring for goodness sake get the Traxxion (or others) roller adjustment bearing, it makes adjustment with collars eeeeezzzzzeeee, Keep a bit of nickle antisieze on the shock body as well. (or moly grease it will keep the adjustment rings from seizing, and remember to always oil a drop or two when you adjust the preload with ring adjusters
Ps the hypercoil hydraulic spring perch is good stuff, so good Ohlins uses them and then denies it... sort of.
Yeah I know cover up the expensive bling with a sock, Better than a re-build and a scored shock shaft.
Ps if you are changing the spring for goodness sake get the Traxxion (or others) roller adjustment bearing, it makes adjustment with collars eeeeezzzzzeeee, Keep a bit of nickle antisieze on the shock body as well. (or moly grease it will keep the adjustment rings from seizing, and remember to always oil a drop or two when you adjust the preload with ring adjusters
Ps the hypercoil hydraulic spring perch is good stuff, so good Ohlins uses them and then denies it... sort of.
O.K. I understood most of that 
At 6' 4" and 250 LBS I don't think I was the target for suspension baseline on this bike.
(1) If I wanted to change only the spring to get sag under control is there a spring I could buy (that would fit!) so my local suspension shop could swap it for me?
(2) What is this " hypercoil hydraulic spring perch" and what does it do?
(3) Good advice on the shock sock and hugger, they are on the list.
Thanks for your detailed reply,
DW
At 6' 4" and 250 LBS I don't think I was the target for suspension baseline on this bike.
(1) If I wanted to change only the spring to get sag under control is there a spring I could buy (that would fit!) so my local suspension shop could swap it for me?
(2) What is this " hypercoil hydraulic spring perch" and what does it do?
(3) Good advice on the shock sock and hugger, they are on the list.
Thanks for your detailed reply,
DW
at 250 you are lucky, because chances are you will get your sag number with a spring right at 800lb (my best guess based on what we saw) you know you have it right when you lift the rear of the bike (not by the wheel) and then let it sit back down the Griso should have about 3-5mm of free sag.(this is balanced on its wheels straight up and down)
Then it should sit about 22-33% total Travel. Rider sag with you sitting on it., so about 33-35mm (rider +free sag) this is your feet up straight up in riding position.
now to know if ya have the right spring---if you have the two criteria met AND you have 10-15mm pre-load in the spring...you have a good spring rate
if you cannot get to 30-35mm rider sag with 10mm preload on the rear spring the rate is too high.
if you add more than 15-18mm pre-load to get the sag number the spring is too soft
you actually should be able to get in decent adjustment damping wise without the revalve,
Hyperco spring pearches: http://www.hypercoils.com/spring-perches.html
adjuster bearings: http://www.traxxion.com/ShockSpringTorr ... ngKit.aspx
Then it should sit about 22-33% total Travel. Rider sag with you sitting on it., so about 33-35mm (rider +free sag) this is your feet up straight up in riding position.
now to know if ya have the right spring---if you have the two criteria met AND you have 10-15mm pre-load in the spring...you have a good spring rate
if you cannot get to 30-35mm rider sag with 10mm preload on the rear spring the rate is too high.
if you add more than 15-18mm pre-load to get the sag number the spring is too soft
you actually should be able to get in decent adjustment damping wise without the revalve,
Hyperco spring pearches: http://www.hypercoils.com/spring-perches.html
adjuster bearings: http://www.traxxion.com/ShockSpringTorr ... ngKit.aspx
Here's a slightly different take on spring rate and preload.
To tell if your spring rate is correct compare your free sag (the amount the bike settles under its own weight) to the race sag (the amount the bike settles when you are sitting on it in a riding position). These two are in relation to fully extended, i.e., the suspension is fully extend and the wheel is just hanging there.
You typically want around 10% of total travel to be the amount of free sag and 25% - 30% of total travel to be the amount the suspension compresses for your race sag.
If you set your race sag to the correct amount and you have too much free sag then your springs are too stiff. If you have the correct amount of race sag and your free sag is to little then your springs are too soft.
Some key things to remember. with straight rate springs adding preload does not make the spring stiffer.
Adding or subtracting preload sets the ride height of the suspension. That puts the suspension to where it should be in its travel to handle correctly.
You should never have zero free sag, that means the suspension is topped out.
To tell if your spring rate is correct compare your free sag (the amount the bike settles under its own weight) to the race sag (the amount the bike settles when you are sitting on it in a riding position). These two are in relation to fully extended, i.e., the suspension is fully extend and the wheel is just hanging there.
You typically want around 10% of total travel to be the amount of free sag and 25% - 30% of total travel to be the amount the suspension compresses for your race sag.
If you set your race sag to the correct amount and you have too much free sag then your springs are too stiff. If you have the correct amount of race sag and your free sag is to little then your springs are too soft.
Some key things to remember. with straight rate springs adding preload does not make the spring stiffer.
Adding or subtracting preload sets the ride height of the suspension. That puts the suspension to where it should be in its travel to handle correctly.
You should never have zero free sag, that means the suspension is topped out.
My thanks to both responders. I was glad to hear that a spring swap is possible. If an 800# spring is recommended do you recall what the stock spring weight was?
I will contact TD when I am ready to go. The adjuster bearing thing looks very sensible.
DW
I will contact TD when I am ready to go. The adjuster bearing thing looks very sensible.
DW
I don't have time to post such long replies, so thanks for doing so. David knows my history, yet rarely takes my advice. Oh well... best of luck with it. I do recommend re-valve for riding in/around NYC, as the valving is set up for smooth roads. 
inch:
inch:GT-Rx said:I don't have time to post such long replies, so thanks for doing so. David knows my history, yet rarely takes my advice. Oh well... best of luck with it. I do recommend re-valve for riding in/around NYC, as the valving is set up for smooth roads.
My grandfather used to say "don't try on the expensive suit"
tiger_one
Just got it firing!
I installed a spring off 09 1100s monster 130 N/mm (742 lbs/in) this morning. Have not set the sag yet, but appears to work. Still dialing damping. I weigh 185 without gear. Tight fit by the way for sure.
Was able to get it out the top by taking 4 bolts out from rear of airbox mount and propping up the rear of airbox. Still very tight fit to work the shock/spring out and in. I jacked the bike up till the wheel was off the ground.
If I had a 120 N (685 lb/in) I would try it, too early to tell, but much better than stock.
Was able to get it out the top by taking 4 bolts out from rear of airbox mount and propping up the rear of airbox. Still very tight fit to work the shock/spring out and in. I jacked the bike up till the wheel was off the ground.
If I had a 120 N (685 lb/in) I would try it, too early to tell, but much better than stock.
tiger_one
Just got it firing!
Update: I have changed to 07 GSXR1000 spring (565 lbs/in or 10 kg/mm or 99 N/mm) much better for my weight, but too weak for 2up. Think a 650 lb/in 11.6 kg/mm 115 N/mm would be best.
tiger_one
Just got it firing!
My stocker was like 480 lbs, no way to measure exactly. But, you may be right. I think a 650 lbs/in would be good for my weight.
Anyway, I gave up and sent it to RaceTech to re-valve. Will see what they recommend and will post back when I get an update on this. The suspension is all I want to fix on this bike, runs great!
Update: The stock spring is 8.4 kgf/mm or 470 lbs/in.
Anyway, I gave up and sent it to RaceTech to re-valve. Will see what they recommend and will post back when I get an update on this. The suspension is all I want to fix on this bike, runs great!
Update: The stock spring is 8.4 kgf/mm or 470 lbs/in.
Makes me wonder, what year was your bike? that spring at 460lb is goofy light. and does not match what we had on the three rear shocks I have played with now.... but the '12 , the '10, and the ,'09 all were sprung differently the lightest was 500lb and the heaviest was 610lb. My '12 was the middle at 582lb ish
at least with a heavier spring, your stock damping is closer to correct, as spring rate is really the factor that dictates the rebound circuit. the compression should be able to be backed off a bit as well from the stock spring setting.
at least with a heavier spring, your stock damping is closer to correct, as spring rate is really the factor that dictates the rebound circuit. the compression should be able to be backed off a bit as well from the stock spring setting.