Smartleynz
Tuned and Synch'ed
Yo, C14 makes a lot of engine noise, not like my last Griso or any Guzzi I have met. Hey where and when is the next rattly tappet? South Island this time? thanks
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Rattely tappet noise? manufactured or historic?
- Thread starter Smartleynz
- Start date
Davetac1
Cruisin' Guzzisti
If I owned that Bimmer,I'd reconsider that 24,000 mile oil change interval.That's just askin for trouble and I don't care what BMW recommends.That's just too far to go on any oil change.I've only been in the repair business for 60 years[retired now but still do alittle work every now and then,plus service my own stuff] and I've NEVER heard of a 24,000 mile oil change interval recommendation by any manufacturer.And the guys who allowed their motors to go anywheres near that mileage on an oil change, usually ended up changing the motor.Are you sure that's what they told ya??? 6000 miles is alittle more like it.I have a friend who bought a Mercedes and I'm pretty sure he told me that the STEALER he bought it from recommended 6,000 mile intervals.
And THEN,an oil change depends on what kind of drivin ya do,whether it's all city,all highway,or a mix of both.If it's all highway,then naturally you can go longer on your intervals.[but not 24,000] But city driving ,or short hops,is what kills oil and requires a more frequent oil change.
Most motorcycle manufacturers recommend 5-6000 mile intervals and are now pushing synthetic oil,but most motorcycle oil also has to do triple duty,motor,trans,and clutch.The Guzzi uses an automotive type clutch,[dry,no oil] so the interval on the Guzzi could be a little longer.Myself,I've stuck to 3000 miles on all my motorcycles [5000 miles on my four wheelers] and have yet to lose a motor.But when I bought my Triumph and they recommended 6000 mile intervals and synthetic oil,[remember it has to do triple duty]I quickly changed that to the 3000 mile interval I've been using right along on my other scooters.lol
But,it's your vehicle and your money,so far be it for me to change anyone's mind on whatever oil or oil interval,they choose.I wish you luck.
And THEN,an oil change depends on what kind of drivin ya do,whether it's all city,all highway,or a mix of both.If it's all highway,then naturally you can go longer on your intervals.[but not 24,000] But city driving ,or short hops,is what kills oil and requires a more frequent oil change.
Most motorcycle manufacturers recommend 5-6000 mile intervals and are now pushing synthetic oil,but most motorcycle oil also has to do triple duty,motor,trans,and clutch.The Guzzi uses an automotive type clutch,[dry,no oil] so the interval on the Guzzi could be a little longer.Myself,I've stuck to 3000 miles on all my motorcycles [5000 miles on my four wheelers] and have yet to lose a motor.But when I bought my Triumph and they recommended 6000 mile intervals and synthetic oil,[remember it has to do triple duty]I quickly changed that to the 3000 mile interval I've been using right along on my other scooters.lol
But,it's your vehicle and your money,so far be it for me to change anyone's mind on whatever oil or oil interval,they choose.I wish you luck.
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I feel compelled to point out that it is the weight rating of the oil that determines how thick or thin it is, and that whether or not it is synthetic does not matter.
The STP additive can make a large impact on how thick the oil is, that is pretty much what it does, thicken the oil.
Feel free to believe what you want, but believing in something does not make it right.
The STP additive can make a large impact on how thick the oil is, that is pretty much what it does, thicken the oil.
Feel free to believe what you want, but believing in something does not make it right.
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Guzzi_Lou
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Don't wanna stray too much off-topic but when I had a 2005 BMW 330i the oil change light would come on at around 21,000 km, not miles.
But that's because the oil changes were covered by BMW at their expense. Go figure.
Having said that, the oil was not bad at all when I pulled the dipstick.
But that's because the oil changes were covered by BMW at their expense. Go figure.
Having said that, the oil was not bad at all when I pulled the dipstick.
Let's not turn this into an oil thread. To answer the original post question, valve noise is normal and healthy. The 8V is inherently louder then the push rod motors. Quiet or overly loud valves are a problem.
kiwi croc
Tuned and Synch'ed
Couldn't find anything official but the face-book page says the info will be out in the next few days.??
Davetac1
Cruisin' Guzzisti
I sometimes get carried away about certain subjects and appologise for my ranting!! Dave!!!
Anyone have one side that makes more noise than the other? Getting valvetrain noise from the RH bank, at 3000 RPM, above that it comes and goes. Triple-checked the valve clearance, and have even tried the .005/.007 settings to no avail. Bike has 2200 miles on it.
Any known tensioner issues with these? Would re-torquing the heads alleviate it?
Any known tensioner issues with these? Would re-torquing the heads alleviate it?
I had similar issue and posted a few months back (https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/not-your-usual-valve-clearance-question.17546/). I think how irritating you find the rattle depends on your background. If you are used to super smooth Japanese 4 cylinder bikes it will take some time to acclimatize. I had a similar rattle to the one you mention (I still have if I'm honest) and it was noisier on one side than the other, but no amount of valve adjustment really made any difference. Note also that your bike is still "new" and still "running in" so things might improve as it all loosens up.
Now that I have ridden more miles (~7k), I can offer my observations. Short journeys just seem to emphasize the rattle. The engine/tranny is a big lump of metal and it takes a long time to warm up and for all the parts to expand to their correct sizes and clearances. Cold weather and short trips don't do it any favors. Having listened (sometimes obsessively), I have come to notice that initially (on startup) the valves are moderately quiet, then they quickly go through a phase where the valves sound as if they are all adjusting their gaps independently of each other, which kinda makes sense since the exhaust valves get hotter sooner than inlet.
One of my valves seems to stand out as making a loud'ish rattle compared to others. After maybe just a couple of minutes of riding in slow traffic there is a noticeable "clack" that suggests just 1 valve is banging more than the others at certain rpm. Finally, some time later (journey, distance and ambient temperature dependent) they all seem to come back in sync, if that's the correct term, and I get a much smoother 360 degree "tinkle" from the valve train that is consistent and and sounds like all 8 valves have reached their correct clearance, i.e. no single valve stands out as making any more noise than the rest.
I guess I have just come to accept this as a characteristic of the bike as it happens every journey. Not sure if my analysis is correct, but that's my observation and thoughts and it seems to make sense to me and allows me to sleep at night.
Now that I have ridden more miles (~7k), I can offer my observations. Short journeys just seem to emphasize the rattle. The engine/tranny is a big lump of metal and it takes a long time to warm up and for all the parts to expand to their correct sizes and clearances. Cold weather and short trips don't do it any favors. Having listened (sometimes obsessively), I have come to notice that initially (on startup) the valves are moderately quiet, then they quickly go through a phase where the valves sound as if they are all adjusting their gaps independently of each other, which kinda makes sense since the exhaust valves get hotter sooner than inlet.
One of my valves seems to stand out as making a loud'ish rattle compared to others. After maybe just a couple of minutes of riding in slow traffic there is a noticeable "clack" that suggests just 1 valve is banging more than the others at certain rpm. Finally, some time later (journey, distance and ambient temperature dependent) they all seem to come back in sync, if that's the correct term, and I get a much smoother 360 degree "tinkle" from the valve train that is consistent and and sounds like all 8 valves have reached their correct clearance, i.e. no single valve stands out as making any more noise than the rest.
I guess I have just come to accept this as a characteristic of the bike as it happens every journey. Not sure if my analysis is correct, but that's my observation and thoughts and it seems to make sense to me and allows me to sleep at night.
I did read that thread. It was interesting. Didn’t really see what the outcome was.
This is my 4th Guzzi. The only thing that is concerning is that it is only on the RH bank. Perhaps it is something that will change with mileage. It definitely is worse when it’s warm, perhaps we have twin bikes (mine is also an Audace).
I guess you've done all the checking for loose nuts and bolts all the way down the exhaust from the cyclinder head to the alloy tip (and the heat shields). I also wonder if the Audace exhaust itself is more noisy (louder than the touring/custom). Perhaps as it warms up it changes . I also posted a thread and video of my noise on the RH cylinder head here https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/strange-rattle-from-the-beast.17431/ This captures the sound but the quality is not brilliant. Perhaps if you can capture and post yours we could have a listen
Mine sounds exactly the same. I’ll post a video when I get a chance.
When you did your valve adjust, did you wait overnight?
Yes, absolutely, given how much then had closed up when cooling down. Then I rotated the engine through 2 more cycles and checked them again.
Thanks. I guess it's just "character".
I've only owned older big block Guzzis ('76 850T-3, '75 850-T, '89 LeMans 1000 mk V). Depending on which cam was in the particular bike, the valve clearances varied. If I recall correctly, the standard cam in the 850-T/T-3 required one setting (same clearance on all valves) where the hotter cam in the LeMans required a different setting (inlets slightly tighter than exhausts). When adjusted correctly, the engines when cold sounded a little rattly in the rocker boxes but when at operating temperature they made a pleasant clickety-tickety sound, like knitting needles tapping together. This is perfectly normal.
On those engines, because of the nature of an aluminum block-cylinder-head stack, with a thick composition head gasket and a thin oil gasket in the stack, it was recommended that the head be retorqued at every valve adjustment until there was no further compression of the gaskets. I measured the release torque required to break the head bolts just loose enough to torque properly each time. I found that my engines 'settled down' at about 15,000 miles of operation, after that the release torque was always the same and the valve clearances changed very little between services.
BTW, any proper standard oil weight or type never mattered to the valve noise. I ran all my engines on Castrol GTX 10w40 for break-in and, later on, switched to Mobil 1 5w15 in normal service; I changed oil at 8000 miles normally. I was curious and had oil analysis done several times on the waste oil: The Castrol GTX showed some signs of film strength fatigue at that mileage but was well within its service life. The Mobil 1 could easily have run out to 16,000 miles or longer.
I noticed that one of my engines, the 850T I think, was particularly noisy when cold on the RH cylinder. Looking for what the source of the noise was, I took the valve cover off and turned the engine over to TDC Compression on that cylinder. I jiggled the rockers and measured the valve clearances to be sure they were in spec; they were. While doing so, however, I found that one of the rockers had a bit more clearance along its rocker shaft than the other and made a characteristic 'tank! noise when I moved it across the limits. Turns out the preload spring on that rocker had lost a little bit of its tension and the shim/bearing washers had become reversed (likely by me) at some point in the engines maintenance history. I put in all new rocker springs, shims, and bearing washers... All that excess noise disappeared.
Engines make noises. The characteristic noises of a particular engine are normal: Get used to them. When the noises change, it usually means something has changed and wear has occurred. Determine what's making the noise change and solve that if it indicates significant wear is occurring...
On those engines, because of the nature of an aluminum block-cylinder-head stack, with a thick composition head gasket and a thin oil gasket in the stack, it was recommended that the head be retorqued at every valve adjustment until there was no further compression of the gaskets. I measured the release torque required to break the head bolts just loose enough to torque properly each time. I found that my engines 'settled down' at about 15,000 miles of operation, after that the release torque was always the same and the valve clearances changed very little between services.
BTW, any proper standard oil weight or type never mattered to the valve noise. I ran all my engines on Castrol GTX 10w40 for break-in and, later on, switched to Mobil 1 5w15 in normal service; I changed oil at 8000 miles normally. I was curious and had oil analysis done several times on the waste oil: The Castrol GTX showed some signs of film strength fatigue at that mileage but was well within its service life. The Mobil 1 could easily have run out to 16,000 miles or longer.
I noticed that one of my engines, the 850T I think, was particularly noisy when cold on the RH cylinder. Looking for what the source of the noise was, I took the valve cover off and turned the engine over to TDC Compression on that cylinder. I jiggled the rockers and measured the valve clearances to be sure they were in spec; they were. While doing so, however, I found that one of the rockers had a bit more clearance along its rocker shaft than the other and made a characteristic 'tank! noise when I moved it across the limits. Turns out the preload spring on that rocker had lost a little bit of its tension and the shim/bearing washers had become reversed (likely by me) at some point in the engines maintenance history. I put in all new rocker springs, shims, and bearing washers... All that excess noise disappeared.
Engines make noises. The characteristic noises of a particular engine are normal: Get used to them. When the noises change, it usually means something has changed and wear has occurred. Determine what's making the noise change and solve that if it indicates significant wear is occurring...
When adjusted correctly, the engines when cold sounded a little rattly in the rocker boxes but when at operating temperature they made a pleasant clickety-tickety sound, like knitting needles tapping together. This is perfectly normal.
That's a good analogy and exactly what mine sounds like when (thoroughly) warmed up
That's a good analogy and exactly what mine sounds like when (thoroughly) warmed up
So I just did my first 10,000 KM service. Drained the engine oil and was shocked to find that there was absolutely NO metal swarf whatsoever stuck to the magnet - totally clean!!!. This is in contrast to the 1500 Km oil change where there was very obvious microscopic swarf (as you'd expect after running in).
Whatever strange noise you think the engine may or may not be making, it's obvious it's not causing any harm or wear. Also worth pointing out that it didn't use a drop of oil in all that time, even though I "accidentally" ragged it from new (couldn't get used to the 7k rev limit after my previous FZ1)
Did the gearbox oil too, as it's cheap and I was already down there. Swarf still present on the magnet, but I feel the gearbox is still loosening up. All in all, a clean bill of health.
Whatever strange noise you think the engine may or may not be making, it's obvious it's not causing any harm or wear. Also worth pointing out that it didn't use a drop of oil in all that time, even though I "accidentally" ragged it from new (couldn't get used to the 7k rev limit after my previous FZ1)
Did the gearbox oil too, as it's cheap and I was already down there. Swarf still present on the magnet, but I feel the gearbox is still loosening up. All in all, a clean bill of health.
"... but I feel the gearbox is still loosening up."
Also perfectly normal, Paul. I bought my '89 LeMans V used with 3500 miles on the clock. It shifted pretty nicely, but 12000 miles later it shifted so much more smoothly there was no comparison. These bikes are designed to last ... fully run-in takes a while. 40,000 miles after that, it still ran and shifted like it had just been run in.
LuftWolf
Tuned and Synch'ed
Just passed the 20K mark and the bike is now trully broke in. My avg milage has climbed to between 43 & 48 mpg and the transmission is smooth as silk. Yes, it still rattles like a room full of typewriters but that problem was solved by a set of Sonic Defender ear plugs which eliminate the high pitch clacking while letting the deep base notes of the exhaust through.