My bike is making metalic cyclic grinding sounds when you engage gear. 1st shop thoughts were the noise was coming from the uj transmission area. When you stick it on the stand in neutral it spins it rear noisy free. Engage 1st and it's a bag of spanners. The shop advise the carc needle bearing might be failing under load. What is the needle bearing? I'm aware of the inner and outer bearings. They are swapping the carc with a secondhand unit to eliminate it. Any one know of a replacement carc that can be got for a fraction of the the new part cost?
-
Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
-
There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
-
Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
-
Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.
Replacement Carc
- Thread starter nel
- Start date
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
If you mean when you engage a gear and release the clutch with the bike on it's centrestand it makes a horrible rattly clonking sound and the back wheel judders about then it's perfectly normal. You aren't supposed to do that!
The firing intervals are 270 and 450 degrees, uneven, and as the piston is compressing the new charge the crank slows, on the firing stroke it accelerates setting up backlash too and fro in the driveline. Add in the fact that you have a face-cam shock absorber on the input shaft and a silentblock rubber cush in the drive shaft and that there is going to be backlash in the gearbox engagement dogs the poor thing is going to rattle and clank like a worn out shunter on the oldest branch line in the universe! Having too low an idle speed or incorrectly ballanced TB's will exacerbate the problem and the very light flywheel on the *newer* bikes doesn't help either but
'DOES IT MAKE A HORRIBLE NOISE WHILE YOU ARE RIDING IT?'
If your answer is 'Yes' tick the 'I have a problem' box.
If it sounds fine in everyday service?
Find a dealer who has a mechanic.
Pete
The firing intervals are 270 and 450 degrees, uneven, and as the piston is compressing the new charge the crank slows, on the firing stroke it accelerates setting up backlash too and fro in the driveline. Add in the fact that you have a face-cam shock absorber on the input shaft and a silentblock rubber cush in the drive shaft and that there is going to be backlash in the gearbox engagement dogs the poor thing is going to rattle and clank like a worn out shunter on the oldest branch line in the universe! Having too low an idle speed or incorrectly ballanced TB's will exacerbate the problem and the very light flywheel on the *newer* bikes doesn't help either but
'DOES IT MAKE A HORRIBLE NOISE WHILE YOU ARE RIDING IT?'
If your answer is 'Yes' tick the 'I have a problem' box.
If it sounds fine in everyday service?
Find a dealer who has a mechanic.
Pete
Pete,
thanks for replying. The clanking/grinding can be heard on all gear changes with earplugs and helmet. There is definately a major failure.
My thoughts were spinning the rear in neutral and it's noisy free checked the rear box pointing to a transmission fault further up. I recall missing washers in the drive train that caused a problem for brevas. My noise is so bad something is really breaking up in the drive train. Only apparent in gear under load. The shop refer to a needle bearing in the rear box. I thought there was only a inner bearing and outer bearing. I waiting for the shop to elimnate the rear tranny buy substitution. Then put my old old back on if not that, then take the swinging arm off to look for metal debris in the drive train.
thanks for replying. The clanking/grinding can be heard on all gear changes with earplugs and helmet. There is definately a major failure.
My thoughts were spinning the rear in neutral and it's noisy free checked the rear box pointing to a transmission fault further up. I recall missing washers in the drive train that caused a problem for brevas. My noise is so bad something is really breaking up in the drive train. Only apparent in gear under load. The shop refer to a needle bearing in the rear box. I thought there was only a inner bearing and outer bearing. I waiting for the shop to elimnate the rear tranny buy substitution. Then put my old old back on if not that, then take the swinging arm off to look for metal debris in the drive train.
Brian UK
GT Reference
It's not shown on the parts list, but there must be a bearing on the input shaft side of the CARC too. Mind you, if that had gone, they should be able to tell by dropping the CARC unit off and checking it.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
The pinion bearings aren't listed as a separate part but they won't be a needle roller anyway. My guess is that they'll either be tapered rollers or the same sort of queer, busted race two part ball that the V11's use. The crownwheel bearings are a double row ball race and a single row ball race.
Only way to find out what it is is to take it to bits.
Pete
Only way to find out what it is is to take it to bits.
Pete
There must be a pile of old carc out there from the carc breva recall. Having a spare carc is a good troubleshooting tool because they are so easy to swap. Still waiting for shop progress and been advised carc oil level low. Previously the oil seal failed either because I a)overfilled it, or b)the last shop never fitted the dust shield or c) bad luck. After the oil seal replacement filled it to the bottom of the input hole, drove it, checked again, topped it up, then left it nervous off overfilling. Sometimes I think if you have an oil residue around the input allen screw its oil pressured out. I think what I really need is a simple chain driven bike, certainly cheaper to maintain.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
nel wrote:
The CARC isn't pressurised, it has a breather on the top. Over-filling may encourage a bit to get vented out of the breather but it is unlikely to over-tax the seal unless it is grossly over filled.
In every part of the world apart from Oz/NZ all the CARCs with failed bearings were returned to the factory, presumably for re-bearing-ing and returning to service on other machines. Over here I think freight just made it less than cost effective.
As yet this problem hasn't been sheeted home to the CARC. It's all guesswork until it's taken to bits and examined.
Pete
The CARC isn't pressurised, it has a breather on the top. Over-filling may encourage a bit to get vented out of the breather but it is unlikely to over-tax the seal unless it is grossly over filled.
In every part of the world apart from Oz/NZ all the CARCs with failed bearings were returned to the factory, presumably for re-bearing-ing and returning to service on other machines. Over here I think freight just made it less than cost effective.
As yet this problem hasn't been sheeted home to the CARC. It's all guesswork until it's taken to bits and examined.
Pete
GrahamNZ
High Miler
Maybe, but the mess!
IMHO the ultimate final drive for road bikes would be enclosed belt. Stones and belts are a bad combination, but otherwise belts have it. Light. Clean. Efficient. Quiet.
GrahamNZ
High Miler
Forgot to add that belts are smooth running and don't develop tight bits like chains tend to do as they age.
phew it's official as I thought my carc is ok because it wasn't showing play or noise. The metalic thump and grind changing gear is apprently down to the front u/j rotational play (1mm or less) which require a new drive shaft. I wonder whether that breva recall (mine never had it done) for the missing transmission washers could have caused this. My point is that at 32k miles it could happen to other bikes because this is not a service item. Currently the shop are sourcing a drive shaft. Fixing awkward problems requires expensive spare parts to eliminate them by subsitution.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Dead coupling. Is it under warranty still? if so no problem. because of the angles they work through models with the 'Independent' rear drive, (V11's and later big blocks, CARC models included.) will be a lot easier on their UJ's than the earlier bikes. Note that in about 2002 even the Tonti's had their UJ's lengthened in an effort, (Overall successfull.) to prolong UJ life by making the couplings' lives easier.
Failures of the later shafts are rare. Yours is the first 'CARC bike shaft failure i've heard of. Perhaps just bad luck down to poor assembley.
Pete
Failures of the later shafts are rare. Yours is the first 'CARC bike shaft failure i've heard of. Perhaps just bad luck down to poor assembley.
Pete
Pete, could my problems have anything to do with the missing transmission washer on early 05/06 brevas? I looking on the web for the MG tech bulletin. Getting the old clanker back today while we wait for spares. I'm assured it won't kill me. I put it to the shop that being rear ended by a car a year and half ago might have cause hidden damage since all the car impact went through the rear wheel tyre/ hub and up the shaft. They said there were no marks on the outer carc swing arm and the rear wheel didn't collapse. I maintain most of the impact force goes through the inside shaft via hub not the outside swinging arm. I can feel an insurance claim coming on.
So I shelled out £170 for the diagnosis of new shaft reqd @£234 plus fitting. Picked the bike up rode home service triangle and service came on. Still bucks like a bronco at idle in 1st gear on center stand every 20s or so when it seems to jump a cog in the transmission. Service error PO Speed sensor 1000 short circuit or invalid signal. Maybe error message will clear itself if the ecu doesn't see it again. Asked the dealer if the shaft doesnt fix it will he not charge me? Said they were 99% it would fix it. I'm not a guzzi fan anymore.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
If it is one of the couplings on the driveshaft giving up the ghost do NOT ride it. Good grief!:blink:
The shaft is free to move on th splines at the rear, any impact forces would be transmitted up the swingarm to the frame and would have little or no effect on the shaft.
The washers you are talking about are underneath one of the cam-pieces of the face cam shoick absorber on the gearbox input shaft. They would either be noisy from day one or not.
Parts #11 in the pic above.
Pete
The shaft is free to move on th splines at the rear, any impact forces would be transmitted up the swingarm to the frame and would have little or no effect on the shaft.
The washers you are talking about are underneath one of the cam-pieces of the face cam shoick absorber on the gearbox input shaft. They would either be noisy from day one or not.
Parts #11 in the pic above.
Pete
guzzibob
GT Reference
Seems to me you have more of a mechanic problem than a Guzzi problem.
Thks for the info. I think the dealer would prefer I take this difficult fault elsewhere - but where? As I say on the stand in any gear the bike bucks like a bronco such that it when the cyclic mechanic fault (cogs jump) the bike jumps with it. Maybe the mechanic missed the bike jumping on its stand an inch or so. Riding it the problems not so apparent because youe body holds the bile still. On a gear change you can still your the first normal clunk of the gear engaging then a second clunk as backlash or looseness is taken out of the drive train.
I ask is the bike was dangerous and the dealer said not saying he had improved things for £170. I disagree it's still knackered and dangerous and now its got a speed sensor error. Basically I'm f**ked.
I ask is the bike was dangerous and the dealer said not saying he had improved things for £170. I disagree it's still knackered and dangerous and now its got a speed sensor error. Basically I'm f**ked.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
(Sigh) Nel. take it to someone who cares a bit. If they are mechanics it's their JOB to find out what's wrong.
FWIW my 'Guess' at the moment, and that is what it is form halfway around the world, simply a guess, is that it may not be anything serious mechanically at all. I've had a bike in that had similar symptoms to those you describe and it was simply a glazed clutch. When you release the clutch it doesn't engage smoothly but seems to lurch and judder? On the Breva I had with this problem the plates still looked fine and were wthin spec but the intermediate and pressure plates did show some heat spotting and discolouration. Replacing the friction plates and intermediate plate and having the pressure plate ground cured the problem, (I pre-loaded the springs after grinding the plate.
You say that they told you there was play in the driveshaft trunnions. Did they remove the swingarm then? It's impossible to check the front one with the swingarm in place. If they just grabbed the back of the shaft and wriggled it what they felt at the front would simply of been backlash in the engagement dogs in the gearbox! If they'd gone in as far as to remove the swingarm it's only another hour or so to get to the clutch. Why no just do the job properly??
As time goes on I worry more and more about who exactly is working on machines nowadays. It really seems that there are a lot of people out there who have NO understanding of how stuff works who are charging over and above for the privilege of exhibiting their ignorance.
Pete
FWIW my 'Guess' at the moment, and that is what it is form halfway around the world, simply a guess, is that it may not be anything serious mechanically at all. I've had a bike in that had similar symptoms to those you describe and it was simply a glazed clutch. When you release the clutch it doesn't engage smoothly but seems to lurch and judder? On the Breva I had with this problem the plates still looked fine and were wthin spec but the intermediate and pressure plates did show some heat spotting and discolouration. Replacing the friction plates and intermediate plate and having the pressure plate ground cured the problem, (I pre-loaded the springs after grinding the plate.
You say that they told you there was play in the driveshaft trunnions. Did they remove the swingarm then? It's impossible to check the front one with the swingarm in place. If they just grabbed the back of the shaft and wriggled it what they felt at the front would simply of been backlash in the engagement dogs in the gearbox! If they'd gone in as far as to remove the swingarm it's only another hour or so to get to the clutch. Why no just do the job properly??
As time goes on I worry more and more about who exactly is working on machines nowadays. It really seems that there are a lot of people out there who have NO understanding of how stuff works who are charging over and above for the privilege of exhibiting their ignorance.
Pete
Brian UK
GT Reference
Nel, are you testing this running the bike in gear on the stand?
DON'T.
DON'T.
Nel,
I have a perfect 06 Breva, if I run it in neutral on the stand, it sounds like its going to explode. It is however, perfect. If you dont have the problem when riding it, you most likely dont have a problem
I have a perfect 06 Breva, if I run it in neutral on the stand, it sounds like its going to explode. It is however, perfect. If you dont have the problem when riding it, you most likely dont have a problem
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
guzzi jon wrote:
Yeah. What knucklehead said.:laugh:
Pete
Yeah. What knucklehead said.:laugh:
Pete