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Running-in and 10W60 (again!)

Geordie are you sure? I can't find it in any of my brochures and I've had a trade account with them for 6 years. When I bought my Stelvio in May I contacted Rock Oil about engine oil for the bike, I was told 10/60 was not available, and the nearest they did was 20/60 or 15/50 :unsure:
 
Brian UK wrote:
Anders, if you really want to see that sort of consistency, try putting in machine cutting oil, go through about 6 heating and cooling cycles, you drop the sump and it springs back up again on elastic.
A certain local dealer was supplied a drum of this which was labled 10W60. Wrote off several bikes.
Click to expand...

Q8 F1 10W-50 from 4 liter canister. Always do it myself. I'm more reliable to myself than any shop. :woohoo:
Should be alright.
But, as stated many times before, EFI smallblocks, and seems as specially mine, gets VERY hot.
 
fatal wrote:
I recently sent an email to Castrol Uk technical services regarding the use of 10/60 oil in my Stelvio. The reply from Andy Griffin, their automotive lubricants technical advisor, was that Castrol Edge Sport 10/60 was what they reccommend. It's a higher spec oil than the AGIP, so thats whats going in my bike.
Click to expand...

Use whatever oil makes you happy, but when it comes to oil "specs" or grades it is not always a case of higher and lower. Most higher "spec" oils made nowadays do not contain as much protective additives like zinc and phosphorus that older/lower spec oils do. This is mostly due to cars (and now bikes) using cats. Zinc and other additives like phosphorus are bad for cats but good for plain bearings and flat tappet cams. The best oil grade in the US that you can get in my opinion for your bike is SG. Newer spec oils like SM have less protection for your valve train and bearings. That does not mean that bad things will automatically happen if you use SM oils, but the odds do go up. Why would you do that to your Guzzi?
 
It would seem that the oil manufacturers put in other ingredients to compensate for the lack of zinc and phospherous, otherwise modern engines using these more modern and higher spec oils would presumably wear out quicker. :unsure:
My handbook states'........use top brand oil that meets or exceeds CCMC G-4 API SG. Castrol is a top brand and the 10/60 Edge Sport certainly exceeds the old SG rating.
 
fatal wrote:
It would seem that the oil manufacturers put in other ingredients to compensate for the lack of zinc and phospherous, otherwise modern engines using these more modern and higher spec oils would presumably wear out quicker. :unsure:
My handbook states'........use top brand oil that meets or exceeds CCMC G-4 API SG. Castrol is a top brand and the 10/60 Edge Sport certainly exceeds the old SG rating.
Click to expand...

....no, their latest and greatest oil exceeds SM specifications. That is a different set of standards, not a higher set of standards.
Cars do not have a problem with SM oils because modern cars do not typically have flat tappet valve trains, and again, they have no choice because they have cats and zinc and phosphorus will kill a cat.
Use what you like, but oil standards are as simple as new standards are higher standards. Meeting a newer standard does not mean it is a better oil. It means it has different additives in different amounts. Some of the additives it has less of are very good for your Guzzi.
Again, use what you like, but I will not use an SM oil in my Guzzis.
 
Doesn't your Stelvio have a catalytic converter fitted? I believe mine has , also my Triumph has. Going by what you're saying I should have grounds to sue Castrol if my engine wears prematurely as they have catagorically stated that they reccommend this oil for the Stelvio. Perhaps the guy in their technical department isn't up to speed on motorcycle engines and what the current API ratings are:huh:
 
Geordie wrote:
fatal wrote:
Brian I've heard about that cutting oil mistake, I read somewhere it was Rock Oil, however they do not produce a 10/60 oil, they do a 20/60, so can't be certain it was them. An awful mistake to make though :blush:
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err... Rock Oil do produce a 10w/60. It's in my bike!
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I doubt you have.
According to my invoice for the service, mine has Synthesis 4 Racing oil in it.
According to their info
http://www.rockoil.co.uk/Road&Race.pdf
This is a 15W50 oil.

And yes the "mistake" was made by Rock Oil.
Only one person lost out. An Aussie who had a Griso and was taking it back with him. The bike was old enough to get round some regs as I understand. But due to this cock up, he ended up with a brand new model, which put him in a difficult position.
 
The link from XS11 is old and somewhat out of date. The info is good, but they are talking about the differences between car and bike oils with a SG rating. That rating is thought by some (well, atleast me) to be the oil of choice. That article was written long before oil standards started seriously tightening the allowable levels of zinc and phosphorus. Newer car oils (and some bike oils) are SM rated which is a completely different beast.
The other one is not as old but it is not new.
Both are good sources of info but neither deals with SM rated oils.

By the way, I don't think Castrol even sells an SG rated oil (no I have not researched that, I could be completely wrong) so what do you expect them to tell you. They only seem to sell SM rated oils so it's a given that the oil they recommend is going to be SM rated.
 
But surely they (castrol) should not reccommend an oil if it is is not suitable, they would be leaving themselves open for much critiscism and the possibility of legal action. Would it be better for castrol to simply state they do not specify a particular oil because they cannot meet the manufacturers requirement?
When I contacted my Rock Oil representative to ask for a suitable oil for my Stelvio he told me they did not list any as they do not make a 10/60, although together we concurred that probably a 10/50 or 15/50 synthetic may possibly be OK, and the 20/60 they make may be a little too thick for initial start up, but that was not an official reccommendation, but the Castrol one was for the 10/60 Edge sport.
 
Hi All,
Always interesting, these oil threads.....:)

I`ve just changed my Norge engine oil and filter.....I got MOTUL 7100, 10w60, 100% synthetic, from a local bike dealer.....£35 x 4 lts.

The spec is as follows off the can....quote......API SG/SH/SJ/SL.....JASO MA

....Meets bike manufacturer specifications, especially KTM, Husqvarna, MV Augusta and Moto Guzzi which recommend SAE 10w60
for specific models. High temperature resistance, Excellent shear resistance. Contains calcium sulphonate......unquote.

Hope this helps,

Eric B)
 
It is very complex between oils, many believe that oil is oil and that is so far from the truth.

99% of all Automobile oils are designed solely for cars, an out standing oil company would have looked into the crystal ball/future and designed car oils to work in bikes, and there are only about 3, I do know of 1 that will work outstanding in both situations.
There are some additives that bike engines require that automobile engines do not.
I am not naming oils that proclaim to work in bike engines when in fact they will foam and if water gets into the case, over a very short time the two will mix, here again not good for the metal components.

Majority of bike or even auto oils will only last a few races if lucky, but than again there a only a couple or thee that can withstand racing environment punishment.
One of the best tests one can do to see if their oil does what they company claims. Do a dyno run and right after shut down of the engine drain the oil. This will give you a look to see if the oil foams. Guzzi's and Hogs not included since they have a separate trans from the engine, hence different lubricants.
Another test, clear jam jar 1/3rd water,1/3rd oil replace lid and shake let stand, watch for separation and do this several times until oil is mixed with water. Your engine or trans will mix thousands times faster than this so keep this in mind. I am critical about the lubricants I use in any of my vehicles or combustion powered equipment. It costs too much to repair.
 
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