I'm seriously considering buying a Norge. Got rid of my R1100RT and want something a bit smaller, more agile than the R1200RT. I really like the look and the feel of the Norge. But...my first ride was a bit of a disappointment relating to engine responce and torque. Now the dealer only let me do a 8 mile loop on suburban streets so I may have formed the wrong opinion...hence this post. The Norge had little power under 3000 rpm and I had to rev to over 4000 to get any spunk at all. My Triump Bonniville 850cc has gobs more torque that this 1200. The agility, ride, supension over pot hole was great. Again loved the feel of the bike.. but the torque is weak. Tell me I got it wrong and why please.
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!st ride on a Norge
- Thread starter bobz
- Start date
GrahamNZ
High Miler
Hmmmm. These modern Guzzi engines do like to rev and compared to some others seem low on torque at low revs for a V-twin of reasonable capacity. eg. For highway riding I like to keep at least 4,000rpm showing. My Breva 11 will cruise happily at 2,500rpm but for any decent acceleration downchanging is essential. Fortunately the gearbox is slick and positive. If you want a touring bike with torque from nothing you might like a Buell XB12XT. Light too.
guzzibob
GT Reference
Guzzis new or old have never been low end torque monsters, just not what they are. In general they are happiest in the middle, roughly 4-6k. No real need to rev much higher than that, but my Norge will happily take you to redline if you want. Never ridden a R1100RT, but from what I've read the Norge feels much lighter & more agile, though it actually weighs about the same. My Norge will run just fine 3-4k, unless it is really, really hot, but as you pointed out it pulls a lot harder from 4k on. But then, so do my other much older ('75 & '91) Guzzis. You might find the following link to a Motorcycle Consumer News report useful. Although it isn't billed as such, it really is pretty much a comparo of the Norge & the R1200RT, & they like the Norge a lot. Bear in mind also that MCN is the only bike mag that declines all ads, so some think that makes them more objective. Also, the article is from 2007, & the Norge suspension has been stiffened a bit since then. In any case, there are a number of aftermarket answers if you want it more so, all discussed elsewhere here at Guzzitech.
http://www.animalnetwork.com/mcn/model_ ... July07.pdf
http://www.animalnetwork.com/mcn/model_ ... July07.pdf
loftyjohn
Cruisin' Guzzisti
Hi
I must say If I went along to a dealer and an 8 mile test run is all he would alow I would say stick his bikes where the sun don't sine :laugh:
Go to a propper dealer, half a day or even a whole day can be had
If you are looking to spend around
I must say If I went along to a dealer and an 8 mile test run is all he would alow I would say stick his bikes where the sun don't sine :laugh:
Go to a propper dealer, half a day or even a whole day can be had
If you are looking to spend around
Re:1st ride on a Norge
I almost purchased an R1200RT, but was fortunate enough to get a short ride on a Norge - although I think my demo ride was even shorter than yours. I came away wondering why I liked the Norge so much. The BMW was much more refined - almost to the point of being boring. The Norge is Italian - she sounds like an Italian motorcycle, feels a bit rowdy, rattles and buzzes like a motorcycle should - not excessive, but she lets you know she's there. Of course mine is red, like an Italian bike should be (not to mention that the red ones are faster).
She will run all day long at 5000RPM (an indicated 85MPH) and pulls steadily from about 3000 up - not a bunch of torque, but enough to keep up with traffic and then some. She is much happier at about 3500 to 4000 but I can always downshift if I need to.
Changing the tires to Dunlops made a big difference in handling for me. The bike suddenly felt lighter and much more responsive. I can pretty much stay with most of the SoCal riders in the canyons (there are notable exceptions), and I expect that once the new shock, spring, and front fork rebuild are complete I'll take another step up the handling curve without exceeding my comfort level.
As you can probably tell, I love my Norge. Don't sweat the torque - you already like the bike. You will learn her desires and how to treat her so she can treat you well.
Let us know what color you buy.
jdg
I almost purchased an R1200RT, but was fortunate enough to get a short ride on a Norge - although I think my demo ride was even shorter than yours. I came away wondering why I liked the Norge so much. The BMW was much more refined - almost to the point of being boring. The Norge is Italian - she sounds like an Italian motorcycle, feels a bit rowdy, rattles and buzzes like a motorcycle should - not excessive, but she lets you know she's there. Of course mine is red, like an Italian bike should be (not to mention that the red ones are faster).
She will run all day long at 5000RPM (an indicated 85MPH) and pulls steadily from about 3000 up - not a bunch of torque, but enough to keep up with traffic and then some. She is much happier at about 3500 to 4000 but I can always downshift if I need to.
Changing the tires to Dunlops made a big difference in handling for me. The bike suddenly felt lighter and much more responsive. I can pretty much stay with most of the SoCal riders in the canyons (there are notable exceptions), and I expect that once the new shock, spring, and front fork rebuild are complete I'll take another step up the handling curve without exceeding my comfort level.
As you can probably tell, I love my Norge. Don't sweat the torque - you already like the bike. You will learn her desires and how to treat her so she can treat you well.
Let us know what color you buy.
jdg
StormShearon
Cruisin' Guzzisti
The only, minor, issue I have with my Norge ('07 with just under 10,000 miles) is it's low speed behavior. Mine is not really very happy at less than 15 miles and hour, and can be a bit of a pain in stop and go, rush hour traffic. My solution is to avoid when possible - but the bike will creep along OK, it just is a bit more work than others I have had.
But on the road at decent speeds, the bike is great. It handles curves well, does the slab well, is entertaining, simple to maintain, gets great mileage and is a ton of fun.
But on the road at decent speeds, the bike is great. It handles curves well, does the slab well, is entertaining, simple to maintain, gets great mileage and is a ton of fun.
Rotten Ralph
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2008
- Messages
- 31
Sold my R1150RT to get a Norge. I believe that the Norge weighs slightly more but it does feel lighter. One thing that I like better is that I can stay in 6th gear at lower speed on the Norge. Seems that I was shifting the Beemer much more frequently between 5th and 6th, which I'm sure is just a taller 6th gear.
Also, IMHO, the Norge goes through the gears smoother than the RT. They are both great bikes and I have had many pleasurable miles on each of them. I guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat.
Also, IMHO, the Norge goes through the gears smoother than the RT. They are both great bikes and I have had many pleasurable miles on each of them. I guess it comes down to whatever floats your boat.
All of the points above are valid ones... as for low speed "torque" or lack thereof, what you are feeling is the absurd leanness for Euro 3 specs. See my PC-V/ECU thread in the main section for more info. Once the fueling is sorted, the lower end torque of this 1200 (1163cc) air-cooled 2V twin will come alive. Bet on it.
Bob and a few others here have ridden "fuel corrected" newer Guzzis, and I suspect can comment on them from an unbiased opinion.
I'm working on getting my Norge ride video online here again soon.
Bob and a few others here have ridden "fuel corrected" newer Guzzis, and I suspect can comment on them from an unbiased opinion.
I'm working on getting my Norge ride video online here again soon.
guzzibob
GT Reference
Yes I have ridden a "fuel corrected" newer Guzzi, namely a Jackal with a custom mapped Power Commander. Biggest difference from stock was in fact low end-which was astonishingly stronger. Felt like it was going to rip my arms right out of their shoulder sockets from barely off idle.
alanp
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- May 12, 2009
- Messages
- 41
You got it wrong, because most Guzzi's, and especially the newer ones really like to rev. You should never run the bike at below 3000 rpm, and you should spend most of your time over 4000. If I run my Norge hard, rev it up quick, accelerate fast and then keep it between 4000 and 5000 rpm, I get great performance and mpg (high 40's) and the bike runs smoother.
The bike has plenty of torque and power. It loves to cruise at 90 mph on the road, with plenty of power to spare for passing.
The bike has plenty of torque and power. It loves to cruise at 90 mph on the road, with plenty of power to spare for passing.
Mike's right ... although if you're (really) not in a hurry, you might want to wait for the 8V Norge, supposedly at the prototype stage.
Not really related: I had a very short parking lot ride on a B750 a couple of days ago. I was amazed at how different it felt at take-off: seemed to pull harder, and actually runs on idle (my Norge jolts or stalls, unless I use generous clutch).
Not really related: I had a very short parking lot ride on a B750 a couple of days ago. I was amazed at how different it felt at take-off: seemed to pull harder, and actually runs on idle (my Norge jolts or stalls, unless I use generous clutch).
GrahamNZ
High Miler
Historically, the smaller capacity versions of a motor are "sweeter" than the larger versions. Eg. The sweetest Norton twin was the 500cc. By the time it reached 850cc it was a pig that needed to be rubber mounted. Not long ago I watched in awe as an old, carburetted 500cc Guzzi twin idled like an old stationary engine imitating a metronome. Truly lovely.
I'll be interested in your view of the BMW F800ST. My heart wanted a Guzzi but I still I roadtested the F800ST before the Breva 1100 as a "modern design" comparison. I won't comment now as you need to form your own opinions though I can say I ended up buying the Guzzi.
robertmtz
Tuned and Synch'ed
Thought I might post on this one. I've ridden the F800ST. And I have 8,200 miles on my 07 Norge. No comparison. The ST has an annoying buzz at high rpm. I thought it felt unsubstantial and, well, cheap. I can't see riding it either long distance or on a daily basis.
The R1200 RT is a closer comparison, obviously. It is a lot more expensive. And, it is a lot more complex. I appreciate the RT, but didn't find the ride particularly involving. (On the other hand, I have also ridden both the new K1300S and GT. Both of those ARE involving (if not alarming!) but they are in a different class than competes directly with the Norge.)
I like the character of the Norge. I use it for commuting, sport riding and touring, and it handles these differing assignments well. It is comfortable 2-up and the wind protection, for me, is excellent.
My Norge has been very reliable. No issues other than scheduled service. I have made a few changes to take advantage of its relatively low base price. So far, these include the Hyper Pro rear shock and the respring of the front. Big difference. I've kept with the OEM Metzeler Roadtec Z6 so far but am thinking about the Z6 Interact or Pilot Road 2. I'm on the list for Todd's ECU upgrade. I went the PowerCommander route for my 06 Multistrada and it was a phenomenal improvement. Likely, we'll experience the same here.
Bob
The R1200 RT is a closer comparison, obviously. It is a lot more expensive. And, it is a lot more complex. I appreciate the RT, but didn't find the ride particularly involving. (On the other hand, I have also ridden both the new K1300S and GT. Both of those ARE involving (if not alarming!) but they are in a different class than competes directly with the Norge.)
I like the character of the Norge. I use it for commuting, sport riding and touring, and it handles these differing assignments well. It is comfortable 2-up and the wind protection, for me, is excellent.
My Norge has been very reliable. No issues other than scheduled service. I have made a few changes to take advantage of its relatively low base price. So far, these include the Hyper Pro rear shock and the respring of the front. Big difference. I've kept with the OEM Metzeler Roadtec Z6 so far but am thinking about the Z6 Interact or Pilot Road 2. I'm on the list for Todd's ECU upgrade. I went the PowerCommander route for my 06 Multistrada and it was a phenomenal improvement. Likely, we'll experience the same here.
Bob
My '07 Norge seemed low on torque at low rpm also, it was also a little rough in slow speed. The ECU was remapped at the national in colorado and the slow speed and low torque have been rectified. Still likes to run at or above 3000 rpm. I have not ridden my R1200RT since getting the Norge. I really like my Guzzi.
kiwi dave
GT Reference
dsenn wrote:
I got my B11 remapped at the same national. I have to say, I am extremely happy. The Breva with the late addition of the PapaSloane "colostomy eliminator" while added some zep to the ride, produce a large explosion on runover when ridden only "slightly" aggressively.
The new map got rid of the bang for everything except the "silly" use of the throttle and brake.
I got my B11 remapped at the same national. I have to say, I am extremely happy. The Breva with the late addition of the PapaSloane "colostomy eliminator" while added some zep to the ride, produce a large explosion on runover when ridden only "slightly" aggressively.
The new map got rid of the bang for everything except the "silly" use of the throttle and brake.