such a shame - I had fallen in love with the Stelvio

[mike5100]

..... but after 3 test rides now, I realise that the low speed fuelling issue would drive me to distraction. The Stelvio is not alone. It is in the illustrious company of the Ducati Multistrada, the Honda VFR 800 and even the 6 cylinder BMW. I haven't tried these 3 bikes yet but you only have to go on their forums to see the masses of threads on the subject.
I checked that the Stelvio I have been testing is the latest 2012 model with the twin lambda sensors and the latest factory map. They spent some time yesterday setting up and balancing the throttles, but half an hour of riding sedately through the countryside and towns and villages demonstrated the same surging and hesitation that my Versys suffered from. I am grateful to this forum and Todd for explaining how it can be solved, but apart from the cost at about £1200, the complications of putting a non-standard ecu on the bike from a warranty and insurance point of view is just too risky IMHO.
Tomorrow I test ride the Triumph Tiger 800 and there is no mention of the same problem on their forums. And the Rocket that I currently have is similarly glitch free .... perhaps it's easier for 3cylinder bikes to pass the emissions test than it is for bikes with other numbers of cylinders.
I will keep checking back on here, and if the factory manage to achieve the impossible I'll definitely have a Stelvio - beautiful sound, superb quality finish, silky suspension and great handling for such a big bike. (and a great dealer too)
Mike

 

[Lannis]

I've never noticed it on mine.

When my Russell seat gets in on Tuesday, I'll take a ride and see if I can feel what you're talking about ....

Lannis

 

[GuzziMoto]

I guess that is the difference between Love and Lust.
When you Love something you see past its faults and only see the positive.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Regret hearing that, but certainly understand how that can be a deal-breaker.

OTOH, it is interesting for me to read this about a new 8v engine, as my new G12 has flawless fuel delivery from closed throttle at idle to redline. I canNOT say that about my EV, ex-Ballabio, or Norge, all of which I love despite their ... erm ... seeking, dying, surging, lashing, etc., quirks.

But the Griso is smooth as (ripping) silk.

Best wishes in the hunt for the gioia machine. If I weren't a Guzzi guy, I'd be on Triumphs.

Bill

 

[mike5100]

Is it just luck with the Griso Bill, After all it's the same engine as the ones you have the glitches with isn't it?
Mike

 

[doug45]

I've got about 2k on my 2011 and haven't had this problem.Although it needs more rpms than my Rocket it is smooth from idle on up unless It's cold :?:

 

[draidt]

Is it just luck with the Griso Bill, After all it's the same engine as the ones you have the glitches with isn't it?
Mike

Don't think it is just luck, My G12 8V runs flawless, I suspect something is just not right on the bike in question.

Jeez I got to wonder if they missed the obvious, Loose throttle cables that most of them come out of the factory with. An EASY 5 minute fix.

 

[Greyo]

Don't think it is just luck, My G12 8V runs flawless, I suspect something is just not right on the bike in question.

Ditto for my 2011 G8VSE

 

[Bill Hagan]

Is it just luck with the Griso Bill, After all it's the same engine as the ones you have the glitches with isn't it?
Mike

Actually, I don't think it is quite correct to say -- despite the obvious visual similarities and common ancestries -- that the Griso (& Stelvio) 8v's have the same engines as my EV, Ballabio, and Norge.

I'll leave it to Pete Roper, John Zibell, Wayne Orwig, and others of similar knowledge and skills to confirm (or correct me on) that, but it is my understanding that these are quite different beasts, despite their lumps' appearances.

Again, while I do not wish to criticize a shop you seem to have confidence in, what you describe simply does not fit what I have experienced and seems more a product of improper set-up or a one-off problem, a bad thing in a demo model!.

As some here know, I am not yet fully in love with my Griso, especially its handling, tho I admittedly have too few miles on the right roads to say that with authority. My point is that I am not (yet) besotten on Griso Kool-Aid and would say frankly if I found the FI a problem.

But I can say that its engine performance -- and, especially, fuel delivery throughout the performance band -- is exemplary.

Best,

Bill

 

[WayneOrwig]

My 2009 has no such problems that I notice. I have to wonder if your just wasn't set up properly.

I assume you aren't lugging the motor.

 

[Bob Bernstein]

My 2009 Stelvio has zero surging- never did! Smooth as any bike I have ever ridden. I am familiar with the surging that you describe, as early BMW oilheads were the very worst offenders and always "hunted" at low speeds under light throttle!

 

[Rafael]

I think different weather conditions and driving styles probably affect the low speed fueling problem too.

Mike, I think the fueling issue has been attributed to air pollution control on air cooled engines elsewhere on the forum. Seems that you really like the Stelvio, I'm partial to the guzzi power curve and simplicity combo. A multi cylinder won't do it for me. I like triples a lot but I couldn't go for one - too racy for me. I like more toque at lower RPMs.

Anyway, a full blown ECU do up isn't your only option. There are a couple O2 sensor foolers out there. Two of my buddies added Todd's O2 optimizer and about 90% of the problems went away for a small fraction of the cost of a full blown ECU reflash -etc. I use a Memjet with good enough results for a intermediate rider. No decel pops, no surges, but it must have a power roll on defect that I'm too insensitive to notice.

I only own used guzzis so sorting them out doesn't hurt ($$$) too much. I hear you, when it come to a brand new bikes you don't want to fix something new, but don't let perfection be the enemy of the gooz. inch:

 

[mrcanns]

Sorry to here of your experience my twin lambda NTX was prefect out of the box but as I'm approaching its 6000mile service some snatch at low speed has become evident I have spoken to the dealer and they asked me to go to service and it will be taken care of. Before this started to show the bike was faultless very impressive compared to the Honda and BMW I tried sounds like the bike you tried has another issue best of luck with your search for your new ride .ps. I've had bikes that I throught were prefect but they were actually quite boring and this lead to me moving on to what is IMHO the best shaft drive twin around with heaps of personality cheers

 

[RJVB]

Amen to tuning issue - I think all big displacement FI engines are susceptible to this. Taking up throttle slack is one sure way to reduce it, doing the Axone/Navigator magic another. And the carbon canister thing doesn't help in this department, does it?

 

[mike5100]

Rafael - as I understood it, the 2012 models with their twin lambda sensors need to have Todd's full blown solution.
By the way - I know I am sensitive to these poor fuelling issues whereas others are not, but I know it's not my imagination - I rode a Tiger 800 today and it was perfect at low revs (and high).
With respect to whether I labour the engine - this is the common assumption that those who either have perfect bikes or more likely ride their bikes in such a way that the poor fuelling does not become apparent. A labouring engine is not what we are talking about but as it happens the Stelvio on my test rides was particularly good at dealing with that kind of loading if you wanted it to.
Mike

 

[ghezzi]

Hi Mike, I totally agree with you in regard to buying a brand new bike and then having to spend thousands more to make it work properly. That absolutely sucks.

I've owned all manner of Jap bikes, 1 Ducati and 6 Guzzi's, loved them all. The Japs don't produce large air cooled twins for a reason, they can't. Well actually, they don't have the heritage like Harley, Triumph, Ducati, Guzzi etc. These manufacturers persist with air cooled twins because it is their trademark.

The reason is pollitical (global warming scare mongers please leave the room now) not manufacturing incompetance.
The Japs have opted for air cooled looks with hidden radiators on some of their cruisers, too fat and heavy and don't handle. Water cooled 3 & 4 cylinders don't do it for me. I LOVE MY GUZZI's

Bottom line, WHAT PRICE SATISFACTION! ................................... Love is a job lot, warts and all.

My last 3 bikes, 2 Guzzi's and I Ducati were EFI, so I set myself to make them perfect IN MY EYES. Modified air box, new pipes and a tickled ECU.

If you really fell in love with the Stelvio, why test ride anything else? If its what you want then cost/modification is irrelevant.
If you want mechanical engineering perfection, they say buy a watercooled BMW, apparently.

Beauty is in the behind of the holder!

 

[mike5100]

Cost is not the biggest factor Ghezzi. Other factors are the fact that the guy who knows what he's doing to correct this would be 10,000 miles away, whilst the local dealers don't think there's a problem. If I were the dealer (or Guzzi) and something went wrong with the engine, my first reaction would be to say 'hey, you modded this away from how we sold it to you'. And I like to stay legal. It was difficult enough persuading my insurer that I wanted to put a power commander on my Versys not as a performance booster but to correct a failing. I suspect it would be even more difficult to persuade them that all Todd's bits and pieces are just the same kind of thing.
I hope Moto Guzzi will keep working on it. The dealer near me is great and not too far away (ha ha - I guess at 30 miles away he's on my doorstep compared to the distances some of you guys have to cover). So I will keep in touch with him and if he gets new maps to try in his demo bike, I will be straight down there
Mike

 

[slipknot]

WHAT???????!!!!!!!!

You tell an insurer you are adding a fuel modification? Whatever for?

 

[Gordon]

Why notify?? ... well if you live in UK and you have an insurance claim and you haven't advised then of a modification then they won't pay out.
And it is sometimes worse:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/ ... hree-mods/
Also if you live in UK there are quite a lot of new Guzzi dealers come on in the last year that they may not be as good as setting them up as older dealers.
Oh, don't get all excited about expanding the number of dealers as a whole bunch got shitcanned in the last year and a bit or packed it in so there's a lot less experience out there.
Gordon

 

[davem]

It would be interesting to be on a bike press launch of a new model to see if the test fleet all behave in the same way. It seems reading loads of threads over the years people have different experiences with what should be identical bikes. Me personally my Euro 1200 Breva fuels perfectly but with only 40mpg (imperial). Some claim 50mpg or have low down fuelling issues. My bike pops on the overrun loads don't.
It has always intrigued me why the difference, maybe it is different types of fuel or different factory FI maps, or is it the way the individual rides them. I like to rev mine keeping it mostly above 4000rpm which seems to suit the motor, others may spend more time in the low rev area so pick up issues I never see.
I still think the modern Guzzi motor is a sweet thing much smoother and rev happy than the BMW oilheads and with a bit of inexpensive tweaking great fun.