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Temperature Readout

C

caspar

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
34
Location
Melb, Oz
Hi Guys,

I guess I'm getting pretty annoying with all my questions...but I swear I'm running out, so bear with me.

I'm not sure what the general consensus is, but I think the ambient temperature read out on the Griso is the most useless use of permanently displayed dashboard space I've ever seen. For the engineers from Guzzi playing at home: I'm in the friggen ambient temperature, I don't need a number on my dashboard telling me if the brass monkeys are out or not!

What I think would be a much more useful use of that space is an oil temperature readout, that's something I can't feel and is also a bit of information that should be monitored to see if things are going to hell in a handbasket or not.

So, the point of my rant is: does anyone know a way to 'hack' the computer and change the readouts? Or even just a reasonable explination as to why it is the way it is...note: I may just ignore what you type and write you off as a crack pot with no sense of temperature.
 
Here's my crackpot take on it, while it is nice to know what your oil temperature is that about all it is good for, not much you can do about it. The temperature gauge is a 2 purpose function, yes you know dam well what temperature your environment is, but the ECU also will flash at you on the dash if the temperature is low enough for Ice conditions which believe it or not we do get here in Florida, It will get your attention !
 
draidt said:
Here's my crackpot take on it, while it is nice to know what your oil temperature is that about all it is good for, not much you can do about it. The temperature gauge is a 2 purpose function, yes you know dam well what temperature your environment is, but the ECU also will flash at you on the dash if the temperature is low enough for Ice conditions which believe it or not we do get here in Florida, It will get your attention !
Click to expand...

I see your point, but just the flashy warning light is all you need for knowing when icy conditions are about, I'm from Canberra, I know all about icy conditions and I generally don't need a light to tell me it's cold.
You can also pull over and see wtf if your oil temp is getting out of hand, so most of the time it may not be needed until it is super critical...like ambulance cover.

You make fair points, but I still don't see good reason to have an ambient temperature readout.
 
The dashes have 'x' numbers of functions. My guess is that that the air temperature is simply a nice easy one to use. Oil temperature would require another sensor, (Cost.) as what the manual may call the 'Oil Temperature sensor' is in fact an 'Engine' teperature sensor, it's stuck into the block in the valley of the motor, (I'm pretty sure it isn't actually a 'Wet' gallery but I could be wrong.).

I like having a thermometer. But I'm a simple soul who is easily entertained. :mrgreen:

Pete
 
Wouldn't that engine temperature sensor be used as part of the 'self diagnostics' that the bike has, if it is then it is already incorporated into the available signals that could be used for display. Then all that would be needed is a small hack to display this engine temp sensor instead of the ambient...for me, even if it isn't a wet gallery, would be a lot more useful information.
 
Easiest way to get a read on oil temperature is get a dipstick thermometer that shows the oil temp. MG Cycle in the US sells them and there are probably others as well. Then you've got both, and it's an easy fix.
 
Caspar the air temp read out is there because it can be. The ECU uses it to figure the fuel/advance/etc, so it already has the data so ergo it cost zilch to give you a natty dash readout(thats the main reason cars have 'em as well.) As the sensor is under the seat in the airbox it doesn't always give a 'wind in ya face figure at times!'

The tacho is really surplus as well as you can set the rev limiter and just ride to the cutout if you want ;)
 
AFAIK, the temperature read out on Griso’s instrument panel is feed by an independent air temperature sensor tuck in the instrument casing.

I have the same idea of hacking the air temperature read out on the instrument and convert it to something more useful i.e. oil temperature but didn’t pursue further due to laziness ;)

The idea was installing a new oil temperature sensor that matches the resistance-temperature curve of the existing NTC air temperature sensor in the instrument housing. The instrument panel will get the signal from this new oil temperature sensor and the temperature read out on the screen will be the oil temperature provided the logic in the instrument panel allows it to display temperature up to 150 Celsius / 302 Fahrenheit.

Phang

airtemperaturesensor.jpg

airtemperaturesensor2.jpg


airtemperaturesensor1.jpg
 
Caspar,

The main reason for not having an oil temperature readout would be that it would scare the shit out of most people when the saw the temperature skyrocket, particular in stop start traffic. The only solution to that would be to shut the engine down and get off an push the thing. In only .00000001% (my made up figure) of the time would it be relevant and usually the warning would be allied to some other problem. Some people would be shocked seeing the variation of oil the temperature if they had it readily available and it would be just another thing to panic those who look for things to worry about. In my opinion to much information can often be a greater hindrance than what some people perceive as not enough. How many modern cars use an oil temp gauge? not many.

Mark
 
I like your thinking Phang. I did think of something similar, but I worry about how it may mess with the ECU if it does use the signal for other things...that's why I was hoping for a way to program it to pick up a different signal, then the change will only be to what is displayed not the actual signals being sent into the ECU.

Erice, I'm aware of those, but knowing the oil temperature isn't something I'm desperate for it just rates a LOT higher on the 'wants' list than ambient temperature. Hence why I think it would be a better use of space than what is currently there. Also those aren't the safest things to be checking while riding, if they're the same ones I'm thinking of.

I suspect Mark is probably closest to the logic of Mandello, knowing the air temperature wont send anyone into a panic...but that logic doesn't explain the inclusion of battery voltage as a read out (no, I wont start a thread about this, I'll just flick past it in my menu).

Car's do have a temperature gauge, it isn't numeric, it is an indicator that has a 'safe' region and 'too hot/cold' regions; if they're going to show any sort of temperature this is the sort of thing they should be showing.
 
Caspar,

I believe the ECU gets the intake air temperature feedback from the sensor located at the air box lid. IMHO, the air temperature sensor in the instrument panel is irrelevant to the fuel trimming :)

Phang

intakeairtemperature.jpg
 
Mark111 said:
The main reason for not having an oil temperature readout would be that it would scare the shit out of most people when the saw the temperature skyrocket
Click to expand...

My air cooled NX650 Dominator was constantly in the 140-145 C region when traveling two-up in hot Summer highway conditions (always... burning top synthetic oil). If someone is used to nowdays cars' 85-90 degrees in similar conditions, I guess one would panic...
 
The air temp is used by the ECU already for fueling, so it's easy to display. You don't want to reassign it to oil temp as your bike will start running like crap (I suspect) or flash errors. I like the air temp display. I wish more bikes had it just like I wish more bikes had display controls on the left bar like Guzzi does.

Hacking the ECU can be done, but it is a very difficult task without the base program or at least the system that complies the data into machine code. I have some limited knowledge of hacking pinball machine code to modify things like rules and such. People spend hundreds of hours to change simple things like being able to run 7 digit displays instead of 6 digit or making the game free play without credits. The programmer knows a few things about how the processor is looking for data, they then reverse engineer how the thing works. It's a lot of trial and error since you are messing with lots of things (control logic, fuel mapping, ignition, display screens, etc. as far as a bike goes).

It would be possible if someone 'leaked' the source code and allowed hackers to mess around with it prior to compiling it into machine code. This happened with Excelsior Henderson (they sold off all the assets- one of which was a laptop used for fuel mapping) and a programmer was able to generate a complete fuel mapping program for anyone to buy with a sweet new map that solved any and all fueling problems.

Short answer- Not going to happen.
 
Also, my Buell 1125cr I used to have used the same data display for air temp. The problem with the Buell is the radiators directed heated air to the air intake where the sensor was. The sensor always displayed high ambient temps for this reason which made it useless. The Guzzi version is pretty dead on once you get moving and start sucking some real air.
 
An air/oil temp modification has been on my mind for a long time. My previous ducati monster had an oil temp readout in the dash and i found it very useful. If i'm reading the manual correct the airtemp for the motormanagement is taken from the airbox. If the temp sensor for the dashboard can be rerouted, what woud be the best place on the engine to mount another temp sensor. You could even have the air and oil temp displayd alternating after one another with some simple extra electronics.
 
On the rev i fitted the rev counter has two temp sensors
One i screwed into the airbox for seeing the air temp going into the box.the other is in the head by the standard ECu temp.The hottest i have seen the head so far is 135C stuck in traffic.
 
Really? Having an air temp readout bothers some of you that much? Add an oil temperature reading dipstick and be done with it already. No muss, no fuss.

YMMV,

Mark
 
Used an oil dipstick thermometer for 4 years and always had the fear that someone would steal it 'cause it looks so fancy and can be removed so easily.... Such a possibility would be a big problem even if nothing would be thrown in the oil just for the fun of it...
 
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