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V1200 Starter Woes

W

whysub

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 1, 2012
Messages
28
Location
Witham, UK
I have had my Sport a couple of years now, but haven't ridden it much as I had a series of old hacks to commute the 600 miles a week to and from work, and I had a V-strom to tour on. Due to a leg injury I have just sold the V-Strom (the stretch to the ground was too much for my leg to take), so my Guzzi will become my bike for touring now (Czech in May, Albania in August).

Anyway, I don't know why but on Saturday I could not start it. Pressing the button did nothing, except produce a faint "click" from under the seat. This was followed a few seconds later by another faint "click". No warning lights, no red triangle, everything working on the dash as normal.

Seat off, side panel off, and all relays and multi-plugs removed or unpluhgged and cleaned up and given a little spray of contact cleaner.

I did see that there was one, three holed multi plug that had a piece of wire looping from hole one to hole three (I wish I had taken a photo of it now, but think that describes what it is)-anyone know what this is? Reconnected everything, put back together and nothing but the same clicks heard again.

So I removed the battery (which is always connected to an Optimate charger when parked up), cleaned all the terminals and leads, and reinstalled. No change.

So I took the battery out of my BMW K1300S, swapped thwem over and still no change. The guzzi battery started tjhe BMW no problem, so I can rule out the battery (I think).

So what now? What is the bypass I have read about? has anyone any photos of this?

I did rock the bike too and fro in gear but I am not sure if the starter motor is pre engaged or not? Is it possible to run a wire from the postive side of the battery to the positive side of the starter solenoid to see if that works? I am a bit cautious as I don't want to damage anything by doing something incorrectly.

Or do I just put it in the back of a van and take it to a Guzzi dealer to sort out.?

Thanks
 
Here is the link on the no start issue https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/topic?f=160&t=4908 It sounds like the starter relay is functioning since you hear the click under the seat. You just may not be getting enough amperage to activate the starter solenoid. To test the starter on the bike be sure the bike is in neutral, remove the starter cover and just use a short jumper from the B+ connection at the starter (upper large connection) to the spade terminal on the solenoid. If she functions the starter is OK. Then check the wiring, fuses, and perhaps do the relay modification.
 
Hi Whysub,

I recently posted my solution in "another place".

After years of random startus interuptus with my Breva 1100, I decided to wire in a bypass starter under the seat. See

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIpWQE6jaL4[/youtube]

I needed to mount a "piggy back" spade and crimp connector on the starter solenoid. When I slid the connector off the solenoid tab, I was alarmed at how loose it was. In fact I could manipulate it so that it was barely touching the tab. I compared it with my '01 Stone, which was very tight and difficult to remove. I could envisage that electrical contact was minimal as I dropped the bike on the side-stand, rode over bumps, etc, setting up a random pattern of starter failure.

I did install the bypass starter but haven't had to use it in the 5 months since I installed a tighter female crimp connector.

I suggest removing the starter cover and have a look.
 
A quick "get you home" solution to this issue is to have a short piece of wire with an alligator clip on one end handy. Attach the alligator clip to the positive of the battery, and then press the starter button. As soon as you hear the starter relay click, brush the other end of the wire on the back of Fuse B (the second one from the LHS).

This action provides an easier path for the battery currrent to the solenoid via the starter relay. As soon as the starter motor starts rotating, the wire can be removed. (I've even used the cable supplied for securing a helmet to the bike for this trick.)

If it is successful, then you are a candidate for the bypass solution described above.
 
Thank you all.

I did have a look for the subject using the "Search" facility but wasn't very sucessful. I'll have a look at them all when I get home as the photos appear too small on my phone.

I am really looking forward to using my bike for my leisure activities, as riding it always makes me feel happy and lifts the gloom.

I will report back......hopefully with good news.
 
Well, my mechanic has just called me (yes, he works on a Sunday) with good and BAD news.

The good news is that all the wiring and relays are fine. The starter motor is also working as it should.

The bad news is that the starter solenoid isn't working. He has stripped the starter motor and all is well with the brushes etc, and it spins as it should. The solenoid is a sealed unit which he cannot get into. It also seems that I can't buy a solenoid on its own- I have to buy the complete starter motor and solenoid at around £300. :shock:

He's going to check with an auto electrician tomorrow to see if the solenoid can be split and repaired, but like most things now thinks it will be a matter of being told just to replace it.

Anyone come across this failure before? Or has a spare solenoid?
 
Thanks John-that is very helpful.

I'll get the part number off the starter to see if Bosch sell them .
 
Assuming it's a Bosch unit fitted, you can normally get all parts for Bosch starters from their service agents in the UK. The solenoid does come off the starter motor, I have taken mine off. I found that the brass covered plunger was covered in very dry sticky grease. I cleaned this off (and the inside of the solenoid) and then put a smear of oil on the plunger, and it worked far better after that. Twas sticking ocasionally before.
There are two coils in the solenoid, both wired up to the spade terminal on the end. The other end of the coils, one goes to earth, and is the hold in coil, the other is earthed via the starter motor windings, and is thus disconnected when the solenoid contacts are made. With a multimeter, you should be able to check the continuity of both coils very easily. Spade terminal to earth, and spade terminal to bottom large terminal connected to the motor. It would actually be best to undo the nut on that bottom terminal and remove braided wire to starter motor befor testing continuity, otherwise you could get a false reading via the other coil.
 
Thanks Brian, very helpful.

My mechanic took the starter and solenoid to an auto electrician who had a little play with it, and got it all working fine-seems there was dried grease in the solenoid that he knew would be in there!

So all looking good-my mechanic will put the starter back on tomorrow and will also do the wiring mod.

Fingers crossed-I can't wait to get her back
 
The starter solenoid will pull 50 Amps if it gets a good supply, but only for a fraction of a second.
There's far too much resistance in the wiring to and from the ignition switch, let alone the switch it self.
There is no reason at all not to power the relay direct from the battery.

027ValeoStarter2_zps6469d0b7.jpg
 
My mechanic friend has told me that the bike is now running (hooray) and he will do the relay bypass (as per this website).

I've known my mechanic friend for quite a few years now, and it was he that got me into V-Stroms. Great bikes BUT I was forced to sell mine due to a leg injury-the bike was too tall. A great bike but not as much fun as the Sport!)

He sat on my s\port and liked it, so much so that today he went out and test rode a Norge (he and his wife do a fair bit of touring) as his current KTM is a little lacking in the pillion department. They loved it-hopefully I have converted him to a Guzzi as he did me to the V-Strom.

I can't wait until I get mine back, all ready for some serious mileage in Europe this year.
 
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