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V85TT - Wheel Design - Is a Factory RECALL required?

O

OnLine

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Sep 26, 2023
Messages
26
Location
Australia
1. I believe there is a basic design fault with the wheel design.
2. It is a spoked wheel where the only adjustment / tension check requires access from INSIDE the hub Fault#1
3. In a spoked motorcycle wheel the rim edge is meant to flex when a rock/hole is hit. The rim 'deflects' elastically to absorb impact. This movement is why spoke tentions need to be checked.
4. In an e-type jag wheel the spoke can be checked, but the lacing design is intended to keep the rim FLAT on the surface. Unlike the requirement for a motorcycle. Fault#2
5. Spoked wheels are meant to 'twist & deflect" vs a "mag/cast" wheel. This meant the design is INCORRECT for a motorcycle ADVERTISED as going 'off-road' / 'bitumen' Fault#3
6. A canterstand can be fitted to V85TT, but it will not support bike if front wheel needs to be removed. Secondary issue.
7. No breather / vent on rear axle houseing and sudden changes in temps (creek crossing?) can cause a fail on a seal that seems to be holding back air pressure and +/- 20ml of oil can cause a catastrofic failure. Potential loss life on an "adventure" bike. Secondary issue.

I'm laying these thoughts out here, as I saw one guys pics of a "wheel-fail", looked like 1 spoke broke (tension wrong?) and rest of wheel failed. I suspect the above design flaws are such that a RECALL be issued for the wheel design.

As a possible solution I would point to Montessa 4RT rims & spoke design. Tubless & With rim locks will go 4psi which could help in sandy / bull dust areas/holes/bogs etc.

So yes I think a recall is required, but I'm also trying help MG with some design ideas to build a better "Desert Sled" (Aussie only model? No EU regs here - yet!)

Please post comments, interested in thoughts before posting in V85 specific forum. (or maybe shoulb be there?)
 
One wheel failure out of thousands does not justify recall. Spokes are adjustable, if necessary. Center stand works fine. Sell the bike if you don’t like it—don’t trash the manufacturer.
 
GerryAZ said:
Spokes are adjustable, if necessary
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Spoke NEED to adjustable, thats my point. Inside the hub doen't qualify in my HUMBLE opinion. (just an opinion. Why so defensive? I love the brand)

My question was to some ENGINEERING type who might be able to give some thoughts to the rim load, the flex in rim, the NEED to check/adjust spokes, and how I had a THOUGHT (not ment to provoke, just consider) that the loads on a spoked motorcycle wheel shold be centralised, hense ALL cycle & motorcycle wheels are made that way. Spokes flex in use, may loosen. Dirt bike (lots bumps/rocks/potholes) need to be checked each ride.

So I am asking an ENGINEERING question, not an EMOTIONAL one.
 
OnLine said:
Why attack me & my choice of brand?
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I’ll try to end this now, else this thread will be locked.
I don’t think an attack was intended, nor your choice of brand. This is a Guzzi Forum after all.
Guzzi has had some mistakes that warranted a recall, yet they skirted it because of their limited production numbers.
Guzzi doesn’t build the wheels, they look to wheel manufacturers to spec their requirements. Things can be put to extremes and fail (for sure), but the TT will likely see unpaved roads, at most, outside of the rare 1%-ers. Guzzi isn’t an off-road OEM like KTM, et al.
Everything can be made better, just comes at cost.
 
GTM® said:
I’ll try to end this now, else this thread will be locked.
I don’t think an attack was intended, nor your choice of brand. This is a Guzzi Forum after all.
Guzzi has had some mistakes that warranted a recall, yet they skirted it because of their limited production numbers.
Guzzi doesn’t build the wheels, they look to wheel manufacturers to spec their requirements. Things can be put to extremes and fail (for sure), but the TT will likely see unpaved roads, at most, outside of the rare 1%-ers. Guzzi isn’t an off-road OEM like KTM, et al.
Everything can be made better, just comes at cost.
Click to expand...

No probs my end. I'm just asking an Engineering question. one wheel fail wasn't my thought. I was just pondering the physics of loads & flexing & the design of "bike" wheels in general.

Confession: I'm autistic, my comms can be mis-understood. I NEVER do personal attacks, ALWAYS willing to assist with thoughts/ideas. No harm ever meant.
 
Nowhere is that motorcycle promoted as an off-road motorcycle. It is an Adventure Bike.

It offers the riding posture similar to an enduro on a design based loosely on an enduro style design.

The comparison you are trying to make, is as fallacious as one between a Mazda Miata and a Porsche 911.

There are real enduros out there. They say things like “KTM”, “Beta” and “Gas Gas” on the tanks and they cost way way way more money.
 
GTM® said:
but the TT will likely see unpaved roads, at most, outside of the rare 1%-ers. Guzzi isn’t an off-road OEM like KTM, et al.
Everything can be made better, just comes at cost.
Click to expand...

The problem in Aussie is 90% of roads are NOT paved. Those that are in the country tend to be in poor condition. Not as bad as Asia.
Mostly it's gravel & graded. Sometimes turns to sand / bulldust depending how adventours one is (to get home!)

I raised it as I see "incorrect" load/design issue (might just be me, hence I asked). It concerns me I can't check tham (maybe a new spoke set with adjusters?).
I don't see drilling holes in different position or lacing differently as being a factory 'cost' issue, then if it maybe a safety one, then thats different. Design 'flaws' happen dues to astetics in some cases. But Loads is Loads & thats the concept of interlaced / cross-hub "bike" wheels. Once fatigue / corrosion start in non-maintainable spokes, I suspect many failures MIGHT occur. But thats the thing looking at engineering design...longevity.

The distance & dirt is the prob for ANY motorcyle manufacturer esp given size of Aussie market.
BMW off "cruise ship" that can't pick up in Carpark, let alone side of road. Add in bmw elecs & all downhill re parts & fitting.
KTM go hard but not long (comfortably) and prob for more adventourours w/e away than distance travel.
Harley won't do it on dirt.
Super10 was good reliable, bit expensive, but 'faultless'. However takes almost a comple bike strip down to change plugs after bad fuel)

So I ended up at MG. Air cooled. low COG. Rack on the back, and I just looked Great to me.

But the wheels are making me nervous re a trip (90% gravel) roads. Just the Engineer mind I have. No dis-respects to anyone.
Adventure Tours Down Under (one day?)
 
Last edited:
I don’t see a problem with the spoke adjustment method on the wheels of my 2021. FWIW, mine sees gravel/dirt roads periodically and has not needed spoke adjustments after over 2 years.
 
GerryAZ said:
I don’t see a problem with the spoke adjustment method on the wheels of my 2021. FWIW, mine sees gravel/dirt roads periodically and has not needed spoke adjustments after over 2 years.
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Thats Good & Bad news for me. GREAT that no need to touch in 2yrs of gravel roads etc.
The bad news is I can't see how to adjust. There are no hex adjusters visible on rim, or hub. which means atension check happens INSIDE the hub? or how do you do it? maybe I have diff spokes? Also 2021.
 
Hex adjusters are visible on brake disk side with rear wheel off. Removing plastic cover on drive side exposes adjusters on right side of rear wheel. I took pictures when I replaced my rear tire—will find them and post here later. You should be able to see adjusters on front wheel by looking carefully at the hub near the brake disks. The adjusters look round, but have internal hex.
 
GerryAZ said:
Hex adjusters are visible on brake disk side with rear wheel off. Removing plastic cover on drive side exposes adjusters on right side of rear wheel. I took pictures when I replaced my rear tire—will find them and post here later. You should be able to see adjusters on front wheel by looking carefully at the hub near the brake disks. The adjusters look round, but have internal hex.
Click to expand...
Many thanks for info. Will chk when get bike back.
 
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