Why no Bellagio in US?

[Penis Rotor]

I've been trying to work this one out and I think that one of the primary reasons might be that regardless of it's weight or whatever it looks like a *small* bike. It is very neat and unless you put them side by side it looks no *bigger* than the new V7S. Yanks on the whole go for BIG so the likelyhood is that it was deemed that a sub 1000cc bike that *looked* small would be a disaster. It probably would of been too, for the retard market, but I reckon they would of sold a few to solo Cali riders who wanted modernish suspension, a real gearbox and a bit of top-end curry B)

While I'm now spoilt and think the 8V motor is the dog's danglies and the Griso isas close to *my* 'Perfect' motorbike as I can get mI really rate the Bellagio, in performance terms probably higher than the 850 Griso, although I have to admit I like the looks of the G more, but I'm biased

Pete

 

[Will]

but I reckon they would of sold a few to solo Cali riders who wanted modernish suspension, a real gearbox and a bit of top-end curry

Yes!
Over the last few years under Aprilia & Piaggio management Guzzi's whole range of bikes except for the Cali has been revived. I don't know the facts & figures but from what I see on the road I'd guess the Cali represents a very large (maybe 50% ?) chunk of Guzzi's market.....and I think thats probably because of people wanting a classic cruiser style bike thats not a Harley or Japanese.
So I wonder if they have any plans for a "new" Cali ? If not, why not? It would be a shame if they left it too late and lost their well established foothold in the cruiser market. I hope they're not just scared of tampering with a proven formula that is popular with a generally conservative sector of the bike market.

 

[Brian UK]

There have been strong rumours of a 1400 Cali soon.

 

[Moz]

You might be onto something there Pete, tho how much of a disaster would it be to ship a few over and test the market - unless the homologation cost is prohibitive?

here's an MCN comparison b/w the Harley nighster, Triumph speedmaster and Bellagio:

[video type=youtube]9H6wnfAT0cs[/video]

 

[Greg Field]

The Bellagio should've been the chassis on which the V7 Classic was based.

 

[RJVB]

There are indeed rumours for a new Cali in 2009 or 2010, although the time-frame may prove to be extensible given how things are going currently in the automotive industry.

I just hope they'll at least keep a variant with a smaller engine!

 

[Skeeve]

pete roper wrote:

I've been trying to work this one out and I think that one of the primary reasons might be that regardless of it's weight or whatever it looks like a *small* bike. It is very neat and unless you put them side by side it looks no *bigger* than the new V7S. Yanks on the whole go for BIG so the likelyhood is that it was deemed that a sub 1000cc bike that *looked* small would be a disaster.

I think it's more that Piaggio made the Bellagio targeting the European market where there are serious licensing/insurance benes for <1000cc bikes that just don't apply to the U.S. market.

So mostly, its a question of cognitive dissonance ["can't see the forest for the trees"] or maybe not wanting to go up against Harley-Davidson's home-field advantage. The Bellagio would beat the snot out of Harley's comparable [displacement-wise, if not price-wise] model, the basic 883 Sportster (aka "Sposta" - as in it's Sposta be a motorcycle! :lol: ) in terms of performance, looks, prestige, etc., in fact, in every measurable buyer preference except the first [price], so I'm right there with you on "why the heck no Bellagio for U.S?"

As far as the "small bike" factor, one reason why Harley has the highest %age of women riders is their determined effort to keep seat heights low [so much so in fact, that they lost sight of the end of the market I & other normal American males inhabit, and screwed up the ergos on their models like the Road King that had & still have virtually no buyers of the female persuasion regardless of seat height decreases.] So the Bellagio being perceived as a "small" bike actually works for it, not agin' it...

Let's face it, if Piaggio had a clue they could pay me scads less than whatever MBA crud they've got running the U.S. show and inside of 5 years I'd have them a recognizable marque again [which they haven't been since the mid-70s.] But that's not saying much: almost any trained monkey could be doing a better job than the one they got! :lol:

 

[RJVB]

Pity then that they don't realise those licensing/insurance "benes" for the biggest part of their line-up, and will apparently push for 1400cc models (besides, for licensing, Piaggio already found the perfect trick: spread-eagle the front wheels of an MP3-style scoot just a bit too much, and it's no longer considered a motorcycle, making all displacements accessible to anyone with a valid 'B' license)

A big advantage of the Bellagio is that it's well adapted to European cities: relatively light, nimble, and probably a lively engine that's much nicer in start/stop traffic. All it's missing is a belt drive :silly:

 

[delburnman]

Why would you want a belt drive? I have one on my old circa 1912 Precision, soon after that they invented chains! Shaft beats a belt or a chain every time!

Bellagios are best!

Graeme :woohoo:

 

[RJVB]

Modern belts are about as maintenance free as shafts, but much lighter, and you get no driveline lash.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Modern belts are about as maintenance free as shafts, but much lighter, and you get no driveline lash.

Rene, the driveline 'Lash' in a modern shaft drive bike is inconsequential. the 'Lash' will be between the dogs in the gearbox and that will be identical whatever the final drive provision is. A belt WILL offer a significantly higher level of hysteresis 'cos it's made of an assortment of organic elastics rather than steel but to say it will eliminate 'Lash' is erroneous.

Pete

 

[RJVB]

Transmission belts don't have ... belts inside them to prevent them from losing tension? AFAIK the ones we use in our moving-base simulators do, and those are non-elastic, non-organic components.

Also, there is no cush-drive in the CARC, surely that must add to some on/off effect (which I'd call lash...) when the spines alternate between mates while alternatively opening and closing the throttle? I know we've had this discussion before, but I just can't remember the conclusion...

 

[Penis Rotor]

While there may not be a lot of 'Give' in a drive belt there will be more than in a shaft, even one which, Like Guzzi's CARC shafts has a silentblock type bonded rubber sleeve between the inner and outer, front/rear sections of the shaft.

No, there is no cush drive in the CARC and in the 8V transmissions/driveline the ONLY shock absorbers are the springs in the clutch plate and the rubber in the shaft.

Pete

 

[GTM®]

No, there is no cush drive in the CARC and in the 8V transmissions/driveline the ONLY shock absorbers are the springs in the clutch plate and the rubber in the shaft.

Better make sure that the tire is spinning more then often then eh? :whistle:

To answer the subject heading... because they might actually sell them? inch:

 

[RJVB]

is that bad, a bit more of 'give' than in a shaft?

 

[Penis Rotor]

Better make sure that the tire is spinning more then often then eh? :whistle:

And get the low speed/light throttle fueling right. when it is misbehaving you can hear the whole driveline hammering shit out of itself!

To answer the subject heading... because they might actually sell them? inch:

Bonkers innit?

 

[vivo]

Take the Bellagio, do it up as a cafe racer bike and it will sell in limited numbers against the Thruxton and Ducati GT 1000. In my opinion the Bellagio isn't suited for the US market. Look at Triumph's new Twin Cruiser, it's big. Big is what sells, 2000 cc Cruisers seem reasonable to Americans but I think Guzzi buyers are not typical of American bike buyers...

Harley is Harley, the 883 isn't a bike that could go against the Bellagio and in all likelyhood a woman who purchases a small sportster wants in to the Harley crew, maybe hubby has a Harley too?

The guy interested in a Guzzi wants something not available with Japanese or Harley cruisers. I would think he is older, maybe has other bikes, likes European bikes, reads about bikes and a good Cafe racer with some balls would be of interest to a guy like that. Soooo rip off the cruiser tank, clean up the triangluar frame so it can be seen, and push the styling to something less cruiser and more cafe racer and I think it would sell in limited numbers. I'd want one too...

vivo

 

[Zapa]

Modern belts are about as maintenance free as shafts, but much lighter, and you get no driveline lash.

Bingo.

A Stelvio with 23l tank, 940cc engine and belt... yummy.

 

[sbaker]

Modern belts are about as maintenance free as shafts, but much lighter, and you get no driveline lash.

Hi.. If you read Pete's post elsewhere, you will find that the drive lash is in the Transmission not in the drive shaft or rear end. I would suspect the same lash would occur in a belt transmission, you might not feel it as the belt is flexible.

 

[RJVB]

I remember Pete claimed that, but I've never really understood the reasoning. I can't see how the driving and the driven parts of the rear hub can have spines that do not align without play or with rubber buffer blocks can be free of lash.