RentAGuzzi Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
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New Stelvio arrived

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by Rapier, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I've been posting on my possible purchase of one and I got the 2013 that had been on Cycle Trader, from Miami, sight unseen, 580mi., dropped off this afternoon. The battery was deader than dead. It started with a jump but didn't run long when the jumpers were disconnected, which is why I said it was deader than dead. Seemed OK except the headlights were not working. Fuse perhaps? Raining and getting dark so didn't do much. Noticed tons of play in the throttle and was disappointed it does't adjust at the bar end so I suppose off the tank will come.

    I don't want to get an Li battery. I would need to be convinced that's the way to go, soon. If anyone wants to say even a good AGM battery isn't good enough have at it.

    Thanks
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  2. Stevie

    Stevie Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    My 13 Stelvio throttle cables adjust at the handgrip, though in 51,000 miles I've only fooled with them once.
     
  3. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Congrats! Hope you'll post your info on the Registry page here; http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/stelvio-registry-pics-thread-add-your-bike.11540/
    Newer AGM batteries (your '13 falls into this) have a service life of 2-3 years max if maintained with a charger often. Headlights have a delayed on, but might be the fuse, yes. Battery choice is up to you. Be sure you purchase the correct AGM and be sure it is put into service properly. I'd say 95% of them are not.
     
  4. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    OK, wasn't much light in the garage and only looked for 30 seconds. There was a rubber boot so probably under that.
     
    Stevie likes this.
  5. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Well I already order a cheapy just so I can ride it a few times. If it holds up great. It didn't come with an owners manual but did have a service manual. I finally found one online so can start to go thorough it to familiarize myself with the switching and displays and other general stuff the next few evening. Winter descends on Michigan so I have a few months.
     
  6. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Don't think it is your battery. You said the lights are not working when it was running. Most likely not charging from a blown fuse. Well documented here. There may be a short in your auxiliary lights. Turn them off and then remove the small triangular panel on the right side (as u sit on the bike) below the seat. Check the 30 amp fuse. It is most likely blown. This controls the lighting relay which also supplies the exciter power for the alternator.

    Then start it. May need a boost to get going but should now continue to run.
     
  7. roadventure

    roadventure High Miler GT Site Contributor!

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    I can't speak of the Stelvio in particular, but in general, I have always had the best luck with the Yuasa batteries. Here is the AGM model for the Stelvio:

    http://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery.php?bID=B186&vID=1014

    (The search states Suzuki, but it is for the Stelvio...)

    Another thing I do is I always attach my Battery Minder (http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...esulfator-with-push-button-battery-indicator/) to the bike whenever I think I may not be riding for more than five days. Using the Yuasa batteries and the Battery Minder I have never had a battery fail to work. Also, I change batteries at five years of service as "cheap insurance". Although, I have never had to change a battery due to failure.
     
  8. Bonafide Bob

    Bonafide Bob Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I have not had a leaking issue with the Yuasa battery in my 2013 Stelvio, but some folks due.
    Below is from Yuasa website.

    " Must use Factory Activated battery, due to battery tilt possibly causing leakage".
     
  9. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    MG actually had a TSB on the battery. The battery was not the issue, it was how they were being set up. The acid needs to be put in and then the battery needs to sit until all the acid is fully absorbed. Many shops were pouring in the acid and then capping it. Needs to sit for at least an hour (24hours is best) and then cap the battery. If it is capped too early, some of the acid is not absorbed and builds pressure in the battery as it off gasses. An AGM battery should not leak....ever, unless damaged.

    Yuasa does make a non BS (Bottle Supplied) version that comes factory activated (ie. no separate acid to pour), but I have yet to find a North American supplier for them.
     
  10. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Well finally got home and checked the two main fuses I see, 30 and 40, right under the battery positive terminal, and they are good. I don't have an owners manual to see where this stuff is. I downloaded one from somewhere but it doesn't look the same. The seller has it and is sending it to me it got left behind for some reason.

    Thanks for the help but don't bother trying to walk me through this here. I will get the manual and the time to start working through it. I'll keep my questions to hard ones for stuff about accessories. Walking through this super basic stuff here isn't worth our time. There isn't much I can't do I am a machinist and machine builder, not much of a fabricator however, and I am very very lazy with no patience for my own machines. I will have to overcome that for awhile

    I have spent 20 years on Kawasaki's, a Gpz1100 and two ZZR 1200's. Stone reliable and simple, except for valve adjustment, which isn't that hard but time consuming. And the 40 more HP, but not that much. I'll drive just as fast sometimes, just more time at WOT, which is almost impossible on the ZZR. I did own a V7 sport in the 77-78.
     
  11. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Those are not the fuses in question. You need to remove the small triangular panel on the side of the bike below the seat. There is a 30 and a couple of 20 amp fuses (if memory serves) behind the panel. It is the 30 amp fuse that is the issue. Check that one before you venture down any other paths.

    Even if the battery is dead once it is started with a boost it should keep running under the alternator power. The fact that it died points to the alternator power. Check the fuse and save yourself a headache.
     
  12. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I got the new battery in weeks ago and checked the all the main fuses. All fuses were good but It isn't charging, or at least the volt meter reads under 12v when running at any RPM. And a bit over when it's not running. Apparently there is no charging idiot light?

    No headlights, low, high or "flashing" position but when toggled there a blue dash light showing a headlight that does light up. No aux lights.

    I still can't find the secondary fuse box, it's crazy. Today the first warm bright day I spent another few minutes looking for it as per the manual. ie front left under instrument panel, but the problem shouldn't lie there anyway.

    There are no ECU codes. Everything else appears to work fine. Stumped.
     
  13. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Did you remove the triangular panel below the seat on the right side of the bike.

    All the lighting and HB fuses are behind that. Not the fuses under the seat. Those are main fuses and not the ones you need. There are three bolts holding the panel. Remove it and verify the 30 amp one is good. All your description indicate a blown 30 am lighting fuse.

    There is no code for charging. The fact that you are not charging and your lights are not working when running means you have and issue with the lighting relay. If the 30 amp fuse behind the panel is good, then the only other possibility is the lighting relay is faulty and not triggering.

    The Aux fuses are located on the head stock, just in front of the tank in a small black box. The lighting relay trigger is the fuse at the top but will most likely be good since it is the same fuse as the trigger for the coils. The bike would not run if it was blown. Check it anyways just to eliminate it.

    Let us know what your find. If it is the relay, you can swap the lighting relay with the HB relay to test. They are both 5 pin relays without diodes.

    upload_2016-12-26_14-11-49.png

    upload_2016-12-26_14-23-43.png
     
  14. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I had previously located the correct fuse, behind the little panel and it is OK. I swapped the relays but of course that didn't make the lights work as it ran, so as I say, stumped. The little 10amp fuse is fine. Does the system actually have to see alternator voltage for the lights to go on? At any rate I have to find out if the alternator is working and is actually connected, no brunt or loose connections, and same for the whole lighting circuit I guess.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  15. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    When you swapped the relays, was the bike charging??

    The lights and the generator exciter are both supplied power by the lighting relay. If the alternator for some reason was not working, the lights would still come on when the bike is running. I don't believe this is an alternator issue, since your lights are also not working when the bike is running.

    If you swapped the HB and lighting relay and the lights did not come on when you started the bike, the original lighting relay is the issue. Although it is called the HB relay, it is a 5 pin relay and the low beam lights run off the 85a terminal on the HB relay. The swap was only to test the charging. I posted the logic a ways back on how this works. The lighting relay provides power to the HB relay. The LB/HB works by the HB relay switching from normally closed (85a) and normally open (85) terminals with the LB being on 85a. I had a lighting relay go at one time. Turned out it was a dirty internal contact. I didn't have power at either the 85 or 85a (normally open or normally closed terminals). Basically a dead relay.

    With the relay's swapped, did the bike charge???

    Edit....link to logic

    http://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/2012-ntx-lighting-relay-logic.13928/#post-99207
     
  16. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    It is not charging with the swapped relays. So where does that leave me? Both relays bad, as I follow your logic, I think. That would be odd, both bad.

    As I have said the back story of this thing I don't know except it was titled in Virginia and auctioned by a Harley dealer who had taken it on trade and some yahoos in Miami bought it. The warranty ran out a couple of weeks ago so it's a 13 bought in 14, 48 month warranty right? 580 miles so it has just sat mostly since it was built.

    Probably irrelevant back story. I had the local dealer run the VIN before I bought it and it said the timing sensor had been replaced under warranty. I guess I should find out if the selling dealer can be found out via the VIN and or who did the warranty work and quiz them if they remember anything about it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2016
  17. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    That would be extremely odd. The only thing that ties the lights and the alternator together are the relays and the 30 amp fuse. There really is nothing else. If the alternator was fried or the alternator belt was broken, the lights would still come on when the bike is running.

    Only thing to do now is break out the multi-meter and start ringing out the lighting relay and see if you have power. Terminal 30 is the supply power from the 30 amp fuse. You should have power there all the time with the key on. If you don't then either power supply to the relay is broken, or the fuse is no good. Pull the fuse and check that you have 12vdc to ground on one side of the fuse with the key on. Then check continuity to terminal 30 on the lighting relay from the other side of the fuse. If you have both, then check continuity on the fuse. May be bad.

    Assuming terminal 30 has power, you should have 12vDC to ground on 87A (middle terminal) when the key is on and zero on 87. When you start the bike, the power from 30 should switch from 87a to 87. That is the power that supplies the light and the alternator exciter. If you do not have 12vDC on 87 with the bike running then the relay is bad (assuming you have power on 30) or the trigger power is not working. You should have power across 85 and 86 with the bike running. That is the trigger. 86 should have power all the time to ground when the key is one.

    I know it is a lot to digest. Hopefully it is not a broken wire. The above should at least give you a direction. Look at the link on the logic. It does actually make sense once you spend enough time on it.

    Did you replace relays at any time??. Make sure you are swapping the HB and Lighting relay. There are other 5 pin relays on the bike but they have an internal diode. They will not work in these locations.
     
  18. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I hadn't replace them as this is the first time I've seen them. I am going to buy new ones from the guy Phil listed in the link.

    http://dpguzzi.com/relay.htm

    This will all probably just stew for awhile now. I'll put replacements in when I get them and go from there.
     
  19. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Th
    Those relays will not work for the lighting and HB relays. You need to purchase Bosch type relays. The terminal pattern is different. Either have to buy the stock ones or the Bosch equivalent which is Bosch 0-332-209-151.
     
  20. Rapier

    Rapier Tuned and Synch'ed

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    OK back at it again.

    I confirmed power at the 30amp fuse behind the side panel and the fuse is good.

    Since I'm not positive about the pin numbers vs the schematic I drew a picture. The red dots show which have voltage in each state, off and on. This looks odd to me but as I say everything else works and it isn't starting on fire.

    Both relays have this result.
    MG relay.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2017

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