Seattle Norge and questions

[SparkyMJ]

Hey folks!

My name is Mike, and I just picked up a 2012 Norge 1200 GT 8V. This bike has captured my interest since I saw it at my favorite local used bike shop, and after a test ride, I had to have it! New to Moto Guzzi, not new to riding.

I have only been riding for about 5 years now, but that feels like forever since I am only 25. I used to be a mechanic back in school, and I went to school for drone technology. I worked as a R&D drone technician for a bit, and now I repair jet engine fuel flow transmitters.

I now have 4 bikes including the Norge. My Ninja 300 is my rain track day bike, and my K4 GSX-R750 is my main track bike. I also have an '02 Ducati Monster 620IE I am in the process of restoring, and now I have the Norge.

I really liked the Norge at a glance because it was so inherently different from the bikes I have and have ridden, and it is so comfortable so I can finally get out to put some real miles down. I really enjoy the engine configuration and character of this bike, and I hope to enjoy many miles around the West coast here in the US.

Any maintenance items to watch out for especially with the 8V 1200 motor? My bike is a factory roller, so as I understand it, that is extremely good and takes care of perhaps the biggest potential issue with these bikes. I am new to owning shaft drive, dry clutch, independent transmission oil, CARC, and single-sided swingarms. Should I just get a factory center stand (mine is missing) for tire changes, or is there a good high-quality set of stands that work well for this bike?

Thanks in advance, I look forward to being a part of the forums, and offering any information where I can be of use.
-Mike

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Should I just get a factory center stand (mine is missing) for tire changes, or is there a good high-quality set of stands that work well for this bike?

Congratulations and Welcome!

If you can still find one for sale, I highly recommend the center stand. It really changes the whole functionality of a large touring motorcycle like the Norge. I love mine very much.

 

[SparkyMJ]

Thanks for the advice!

I will look for a center stand, would be nice to have.

My Norge has a carbon fiber muffler on it, not sure which one it is actually but it looks and sounds very nice. I don't know if there was any other changes or if the cat is still on it or not though, I will have to look over the bike this weekend and take inventory.

Weather looks nice and a bit cool out tomorrow, so I think I will take some time to get to know the Norge a bit better!

-Mike

 

[SparkyMJ]

Thanks folks! Glad to be a part of the group.

Would love to do a meetup next spring in the WA area if any of you guys are local!

I actually have come to the revelation that the shop I got the bike from overfilled the engine oil, and I had a few instances of idling misfiring during the long ride yesterday - sounds like I actually may just have oil getting up into the airbox and leaking down, and it may just happen to be coming out on the left side due to using the kickstand. Perhaps my motor is mostly oil-tight actually.

Sanity check question real quick; you are supposed to fully insert the dip stick to measure the engine oil, correct?

I am a bit bummed out almost every single time I take a bike to a shop for work, or in this case, bought it from a shop that did work. I am probably one of the most picky customers there is, but almost all of my interactions with motorcycle shops have been negative, and that was with simpler more modern machines. I am a huge fan of DIY maintenance and mods, but I still have a healthy respect for bringing something to the experts when needed. Just a bit bummed out that the shop I have relatively high regards for managed to overfill the engine oil. Come on, that's as simple as it gets. With the bike in my wheel chock in the garage, the dip stick read maybe 50% above the max reading. That just sucks. I have also recently learned that these engines are also quite sensitive to oil over-filling, and many folks on here and elsewhere seem to recommend filling the engine oil to the middle of the dip stick extremes for optimal results. And I am now also connecting the dots that the intermittent idle misfire is a symptom of oil in the airbox getting into/onto the stepper motor, which is extremely likely to be due to overfilling engine oil.

Most owners probably wouldn't even know those things, but to the typical forum crawler it seems this is the headline for owning bikes with these engines. It must be hard being a shop and having to be experts on every machine that comes through though.

I am also having a bit of trouble figuring out which lubricant products are best suited to the 3 main needs on the Norge, being in the US as well. For instance, since the clutch is dry, is there a different/better oil standard I should adhere to when choosing a 10W-60 oil? Same for choosing gearbox and final drive oils, there seem to be a million opinions on weights and brands, seems hard to make a choice. I will buy almost whatever is the highest possible quality product, it's just hard to settle on one...

Anyways, I know no technical questions here, but I am trying to get acclimated to the Moto Guzzi ways! Any quick one-liner answers would help set me in the right direction.

Thanks for the warm welcome folks!

-Mike

 

[Bill Hagan]

Thanks folks! Glad to be a part of the group.

Would love to do a meetup next spring in the WA area if any of you guys are local!

I actually have come to the revelation that the shop I got the bike from overfilled the engine oil, and I had a few instances of idling misfiring during the long ride yesterday - sounds like I actually may just have oil getting up into the airbox and leaking down, and it may just happen to be coming out on the left side due to using the kickstand. Perhaps my motor is mostly oil-tight actually.

Sanity check question real quick; you are supposed to fully insert the dip stick to measure the engine oil, correct?

I am a bit bummed out almost every single time I take a bike to a shop for work, or in this case, bought it from a shop that did work. I am probably one of the most picky customers there is, but almost all of my interactions with motorcycle shops have been negative, and that was with simpler more modern machines. I am a huge fan of DIY maintenance and mods, but I still have a healthy respect for bringing something to the experts when needed. Just a bit bummed out that the shop I have relatively high regards for managed to overfill the engine oil. Come on, that's as simple as it gets. With the bike in my wheel chock in the garage, the dip stick read maybe 50% above the max reading. That just sucks. I have also recently learned that these engines are also quite sensitive to oil over-filling, and many folks on here and elsewhere seem to recommend filling the engine oil to the middle of the dip stick extremes for optimal results. And I am now also connecting the dots that the intermittent idle misfire is a symptom of oil in the airbox getting into/onto the stepper motor, which is extremely likely to be due to overfilling engine oil.

Most owners probably wouldn't even know those things, but to the typical forum crawler it seems this is the headline for owning bikes with these engines. It must be hard being a shop and having to be experts on every machine that comes through though.

I am also having a bit of trouble figuring out which lubricant products are best suited to the 3 main needs on the Norge, being in the US as well. For instance, since the clutch is dry, is there a different/better oil standard I should adhere to when choosing a 10W-60 oil? Same for choosing gearbox and final drive oils, there seem to be a million opinions on weights and brands, seems hard to make a choice. I will buy almost whatever is the highest possible quality product, it's just hard to settle on one...

Anyways, I know no technical questions here, but I am trying to get acclimated to the Moto Guzzi ways! Any quick one-liner answers would help set me in the right direction.

Thanks for the warm welcome folks!

-Mike

Howdy, Mike.

Lots of questions there. Even the newest Guzzista here is a better authority than I on wrenching issues. That said, I have by experience -- and we all know where that comes from ... bad judgment and its results! -- stumbled onto some answers that work for me.

So, even tho my CARC's are now, sigh, gone from the Moto Grappa I'll chime in on some of your comments. Unfortunately, as a (retired) lawyer, I do not specialize in "quick one-liner answers." Nice try, tho.

* Oil - Lordy. If only I could have the time back that I have spent reading oil threads. While reasonably frugal, as an old married guy, I try not to unnecessarily spend money as that is what my "staff" does so well. OTOH, I do not try to save money on oil or tires. As for the former, oil, I exclusively buy 10W60 4T, and, as AGIP/ENI is no longer easily available here in the USA, have found Motul to be the answer without reading the small print I don't understand anyway.

* Oil level - As said, my CARC's are history, but I (think I) recall that one checked the oil level on those by having the engine hot, machine upright as you did -- i.e., not on side stand -- and not screwing in the dipstick, but, instead, resting the flange on the top of the filler hole. As the place you bought your Norge is not a dealer, they may also have filled it to the max level on dipstick while on side stand. That would, I suppose, explain some of any overfill. Moreover, if they did that without changing the filter, i.e., without removing the old filled-with-oil one ... well you see where all of this leads to all sorts of woes as you have discovered.

Enough. If I am way off from standard, some of the many CARC cognoscenti here will slap me around. Oh, and do try to find a center stand!

In the meantime, congrats on quite possibly being the youngest Guzzista here.

And, while I am more three times your age -- gasp! -- I am sure happy to see young folks riding this charming marque from Mandello.

Best wishes from the top of Virginia,

Bill

P.S. We have kids and grands in the PNW -- Edmonds, near you, and Portland to the south. Have ridden briefly in the area when visiting. Lovely roads, especially when dry.

 

[SparkyMJ]

Thanks for the response!

On my Norge, the dip stick does not screw in, it just has 2 O-rings on the handle where it just gets pushed all the way into the side of the engine. I have seen that most people online also say what you said about not screwing it in, but mine is not the screw type, and that was why I was wondering. Out of curiosity, I did attempt to take an oil level measurement by not fully seating the dipstick, and it was still above the maximum line, albeit by not as much of course. Both measurements still seemed to be above the recommended "fill half way" remarks I've heard. The shop manual does not mention how to use the non-screwing dipstick, so I assumed it to be like a car non-screwing dipstick - fully insert it to take the measurements. Is that incorrect?

As for the oil itself, I believe the shop did put motul 10W-60, but I don't know which variant they put in, some red oil. Maybe its the 7100 or similar, I am not as familiar with Motul oil products. Although I have used them before and would generally regard them as good, so I will see what my local shops carry in bulk.

The maintenance records from the shop on my bike are not clear about what fluids they did or didn't put in the CARC or gearbox, so I think I will need to be looking for those as well. The shop book recommends 80W-90 and 85W-90 for the gearbox and CARC, but some others online were recommending differing weight oil products. Would these be the recommended weight oil products regardless of say, ambient temps or riding style? I live in the PNW so temperatures are on the cooler side, if it matters. But I certainly won't be riding much or at all around freezing temps anyway.

If I can at least get squared away on getting my oil products picked out I think I will be in a good place to start maintenance. Hopefully my air filter isn't covered in oil already...

Any suggestions welcome.

-Mike

 

[groundhog105]

Hi Mike
Welcome to the forum. If it were mine I would order a stock dipstick since you have no idea where that one came from and what oil level the markings on it mean compared to the stock dipstick. On the carc and transmission I use what Todd uses in his shop and that’s Redline heavy duty shock proof gear oil. I buy it off Amazon.

 

[Raven]

That is the stock dipstick on a Norge GT 8V. The carbon fiber muffler sounds like it's a GPR. I have the white version, very nice. The cat is a huge colostomy bag, you can't miss it. The STORE sells a nice replacement Y-pipe. I've used Motul for 5 years.

 

[groundhog105]

That is the stock dipstick on a Norge GT 8V. The carbon fiber muffler sounds like it's a GPR. I have the white version, very nice. The cat is a huge colostomy bag, you can't miss it. The STORE sells a nice replacement Y-pipe. I've used Motul for 5 years.

I stand corrected

 

[Tonym]

Hi Mike
Yes you fully insert dipstick to measure oil level.
Refer to Norge service manual.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

The shop manual does not mention how to use the non-screwing dipstick, so I assumed it to be like a car non-screwing dipstick - fully insert it to take the measurements. Is that incorrect?

But the Owners Manual does.

 

[SparkyMJ]

That owner's manual is not the same as mine, and that one mentions the dip stick being "not screwed in". Mine is factory and does not screw in, it's just like a car dipstick.

I ended up taking the bike back to the shop, and they put the bike right up on the lift as soon as I rolled up and confirmed that indeed, it was overfilled by almost a quart! So they drained a bit and filled it to about half to 2/3 on the stick, cleaned out my airbox and throttles, and then re-sync'd them for good measure. They also cleaned up the oil off the side of the engine. All free of charge.

However, the shop did say that they suspect the/a real oil leak exists separately, and that it is coming out from between the alternator frame and the crankcase. If that is true, that is a bit lame. I also have a hard time trusting even the shops I hold in the highest regards, since inherently time is money for them and it isn't for me as a hobbyist mechanic. I think I will ride it a few times and then pull the fairings and tank off and see if I can get my own diagnosis.

Regardless, I rode the bike home from the shop a good 20 miles, and there is no new oil wetness on the engine, so after a few more rides I will check it again.

Kinda sucks but I didn't expect this bike to be perfect off the bat. I don't think they cleaned the stepper in the airbox, so I may go back and do that as well, and it should help the idle. It still idles a bit wonky, especially when cold starting, but it still rides the same, which is quite good.

Guess I will have to keep riding it to see how it goes!

-Mike

 

[scottmastrocinque]

That owner's manual is not the same as mine, and that one mentions the dip stick being "not screwed in". Mine is factory and does not screw in, it's just like a car dipstick.

Guilty as charged. I grabbed the right page number from the wrong manual. My apologies. My point though was that these types of information are in the Owners Manual. I edited my post and placed the correct page for future viewers. I saw another person did as well which is great. I'm Very Sorry for the mistake. Please excuse me.

For me, one of the great fun things I get to do with a new motorcycle is read the manual while sitting on the bike in the garage. I want to know how to do everything and know everything it can do.

 

[SparkyMJ]

No worries! Indeed I breezed through the whole service manual and most of the owner's manual to get a good sense of the parts and maintenance requirements for this bike as well, definitely time well spent.

So last night I went to getting some of the easy fairings off the sides, and found a few oily areas. I will have to make a list of areas to investigate, and see what gaskets or bits I might need to resolve those leaks.

Some areas were heavily wetted with oil, and others are just slightly moistened with oil. Most of the leaks I have found so far look pretty superficial and easily repaired, mostly just hoses/clamps, small covers, etc. Once I clean up the small leaks, then if there are any more serious leaks left, I will know after a few rides.

Question, does the front fairing all come off as one piece? The shop manual says you must remove the front cluster fairing, the front cluster, wind screen, the tank and its fairings, and unplug the turn signals to fully remove the entire front fairing. I would just like to get to work with the whole front of the engine to inspect and repair, is that the best way to go about doing that?

I appreciate the help folks! This should be a nice winter project to get all squared away.

-Mike

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Question, does the front fairing all come off as one piece? The shop manual says you must remove the front cluster fairing, the front cluster, wind screen, the tank and its fairings, and unplug the turn signals to fully remove the entire front fairing. I would just like to get to work with the whole front of the engine to inspect and repair, is that the best way to go about doing that?

No. There is no magic sequence to use to allow that.

I would not recommend attempting it unless you absolutely had to.

 

[Bill Hagan]

No worries! Indeed I breezed through the whole service manual and most of the owner's manual to get a good sense of the parts and maintenance requirements for this bike as well, definitely time well spent.

So last night I went to getting some of the easy fairings off the sides, and found a few oily areas. I will have to make a list of areas to investigate, and see what gaskets or bits I might need to resolve those leaks.

Some areas were heavily wetted with oil, and others are just slightly moistened with oil. Most of the leaks I have found so far look pretty superficial and easily repaired, mostly just hoses/clamps, small covers, etc. Once I clean up the small leaks, then if there are any more serious leaks left, I will know after a few rides.

Question, does the front fairing all come off as one piece? The shop manual says you must remove the front cluster fairing, the front cluster, wind screen, the tank and its fairings, and unplug the turn signals to fully remove the entire front fairing. I would just like to get to work with the whole front of the engine to inspect and repair, is that the best way to go about doing that?

I appreciate the help folks! This should be a nice winter project to get all squared away.

-Mike

Mike,

What Scott said in response to your question about removing the front-end cladding in one piece ... comma but.

I had a firstgen 2007 Norge, and the tupperware was much improved in the 8v model. That may mean that nothing I say below is relevant to yours!

That said, the later Norges, such as yours (and my brother's THREE 8v Norges ) is in considerable contrast to the fragility of the early Norge plastic bits.

Anyway, from time to time, I, too, wondered about removing that all as a unit, and decided I could not.

Then Nick in NJ showed me otherwise. See following pix.

I will say that the removal is best done with two folks as, obviously, when off the Norge, the front tupperware has lost much of its structural rigidity. I drafted Kathi, my Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess, and we eaily removed it and set on the Moto Grappa's floor as shown.

Again, the above is from an '07 Norge; I never tried it with an 8v.

Let us know if you try, and how it goes. And, as Scott notes, perhaps only if you "absolutely have to."

Bill

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I know what Bill is showing you here but even this, it’s not a simple, “all come off as one piece” type operation.

The instruments are separated from the colored body panels and it is ever so easy to break tabs and critical fastening points trying to do this as a single person. The fairing can be easily damaged by its own weight pulling on the mounting points.

Again, not in my recommended things to do.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Mike,

What Scott said in response to your question about removing the front-end cladding in one piece ... comma but.

I had a firstgen 2007 Norge, and the tupperware was much improved in the 8v model. That may mean that nothing I say below is relevant to yours!

That said, the later Norges, such as yours (and my brother's THREE 8v Norges ) is in considerable contrast to the fragility of the early Norge plastic bits.

Anyway, from time to time, I, too, wondered about removing that all as a unit, and decided I could not.

Then Nick in NJ showed me otherwise. See following pix.

I will say that the removal is best done with two folks as, obviously, when off the Norge, the front tupperware has lost much of its structural rigidity. I drafted Kathi, my Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess, and we eaily removed it and set on the Moto Grappa's floor as shown.

Again, the above is from an '07 Norge; I never tried it with an 8v.

Let us know if you try, and how it goes. And, as Scott notes, perhaps only if you "absolutely have to."

Bill

I know what Bill is showing you here but even this, it’s not a simple, “all come off as one piece” type operation.

The instruments are separated from the colored body panels and it is ever so easy to break tabs and critical fastening points trying to do this as a single person. The fairing can be easily damaged by its own weight pulling on the mounting points.

Agin, not in my recommended things to do.

If I wasn't clear in agreeing with Scott on this issue despite my having done it (on an earlier model), please reread my last sentence in my post.

Bill

 

[SparkyMJ]

I will have to tackle this in the coming weeks, thanks for the variety of perspectives. Not my first rodeo with bike plastics, but it is a new bike to me, so I will take my time.

In the spirit of new bike questions, I had an odd occurrence today with the Norge. This last gas tank of riding I have been mostly commuting to work since my car is on the operating table. A good amount of rain, miles, and a few fun rides thrown in for good measure. Anyhow, today I went to go fuel up, and the gas cap was severely suctioned to the tank, and would not open without considerable wrestling. Eventually, I wiggled the cap enough to allow some air to slip into the tank and reduce the vacuum, and finally with a large fffffFFFFPOOF it opened, and the plastic tank body visibly grew in all directions, about an inch wider. A bit shocking to me since I have always had metal tanks on my bikes. I've also had leaky gas caps, but never plugged up breather systems...

I suspect some of the tank's breather hoses or evaporative emissions stuff is clogged up. The bike ran fine despite the extreme vacuum, but of course eventually I'd have lost fuel pressure. But the weird thing was that this was triggered by what I would guess is the rain. The first tank or two on the bike I had no issues fueling up, but I avoided rain to get to know the bike and watch for leaks. Then after this full tank of 200+ miles of rain, shine, and fun, the lid was nearly impossible to open. Maybe the breather systems were kinda backed up, but the rain turned some dirt into goop that sealed off something?

Any usual suspects to check on this bike in particular before I just get in there to generally inspect? Is this related to the plastic tank swelling/ethanol/moisture/dimpling problems others have experienced?
Thanks!

-Mike

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I suspect some of the tank's breather hoses or evaporative emissions stuff is clogged up.

Hello Mike,

You are correct.

Your enthusiasm is great but you need to receive a bit of guidance here so please let me help you a little.

There is literally NOTHING on your motorcycle that has not been extensively written about and discussed here in the forums.

However, you need to put forth some effort here and SEARCH for topics and then read.

Everybody comes here and they ask the same old questions “ad nauseam” and it gets incredibly tedious and just annoying. The answers are already right there for the taking.

Please, questions are great, if you have exhausted your abilities to search without luck or you have truly discovered something totally new, but otherwise, you must put in your own efforts here to find and read.

Hope this helps you understand better.

FWIW: found this in about 10 seconds of SEARCHING

Norge Starts and Quits

After decades with BMW's, I bought a 2007 Norge last summer. Love it. But this morning an intermittent electrical problem cropped up. I rode it into town, then when I tried to start it to come home, the engine would start but immediately quit. After several attempts it started and I got home...

www.guzzitech.com

THIS IS THE QUOTE FROM THE ABOVE REFERENCED HYPERLINK WHERE THE POSTER STATES THE EXACT PROBLEM YOU ARE HAVING FOUND WITH A SEARCH:

“Yes, your tank can build up pressure and cause starting problems.

While I would find it strange that this could be a new phenomenon with a bike with this number of miles, I guess it could happen.

With my 1200 Sport, I noticed fairly soon after getting the bike. On a hot day the bike would crank but not start unless I gave it some throttle. I popped open the tank and would get a whoosh as pressure was released.

I ended up removing the charcoal canister and have never had a problem since.