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V7iii Agostini engine bars

G

grame

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Feb 16, 2018
Messages
35
Location
London
I had a set attached to my new Stone and noticed that the right-side is very close to the cylinder head while the left side has a two inch gap. This seems odd in that the right cylinder head is actually set more forward than the left.
Then I noticed something similar in the video for Todd's glorious Racer that's for sale in the thread linked below (although there are no pictures or shots of the the left side to compare...)

https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/gtm-v7iii-racer-820r-now-for-sale.17698/#post-145117

I was intending to see if I could get it adjusted to even out the space - but this other example seems to suggest it is intentional.

Any one else install these and come across this?
 
Hmmm may be due to the cylinder heads being offset from one another. If looking from top down one will appear 'ahead' of the other.
Blew my mind when I was told this!

Same story on BMW's also :)
 
Yes, this came as a surprise to me also when a mechanic pointed it out!

The weird thing about the Agostini bars is that they appear to sit unevenly - one side almost touching and the other (which is the more set back of the two cylinders) with lots of space. The supplier insists this is normal, and it did look similarly near to the cylinder in the video of Todd's 820 racer... But no-one seems to have fitted these so it's hard to compare.
 
If you want the engine guards to be symmetrical with respect to the motorcycle chassis, which most people do because it seems unbalanced when they aren't, the bars will always be closer to the cylinder head on the right than to the cylinder head on the left. This is because the cylinders are necessarily offset by about 35mm along the length of the engine ...

That's because that's how far apart the connecting rod centers are on the crankshaft.

The only way for the bars to be otherwise is to have an asymmetrical bend that allows more room on the one side than the other.
 
I understand that. But my issue is the bars seem to also bend more on the right-hand side - thus sitting 2 mm from the cylinder. This seems so small as to undermine their very purpose in that the insanely small gap leaves little room for the bar to flex in the eventuality of an impact. The picture from above shows how the right bar bends back further than the left...
 

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grame said:
I understand that. But my issue is the bars seem to also bend more on the right-hand side - thus sitting 2 mm from the cylinder. This seems so small as to undermine their very purpose in that the insanely small gap leaves little room for the bar to flex in the eventuality of an impact. The picture from above shows how the right bar bends back further than the left...
Click to expand...

It's hard to tell from the photo. The bar is quite close but it clears. If you wanted to bend it out a little bit, I think you'd find it would take quite a lot of force to make it move at all.

In my experience, it's better that it sits close to the engine. The problem is that, if there's a good bit of space between the bar and the engine, the force of the bike hitting the bar on the ground can cause it to bend and pick up a good bit of speed in those milliseconds such that it then smacks into the cylinder with enough force to cause damage by itself. If the bar is close the engine, on the other hand, it might deflect that short distance and just lay against the cylinder, absorbing the blows without any further damage to the cylinder. In most of the get-offs I've seen where these bars that are supposed to protect the engine actually defect enough to hit it, the ones that are close to the engine show less damage to the bike than the ones that stand off a further distance.

Most of the damage avoidance they provide, actually, is in simple drops and fall overs in parking lot situations. And in those situations, the guard bar rarely hits the ground with enough force to move at all: It just prevents the blow from being taken by the engine or cylinder head cover. In higher speed crashes, they only rarely do much besides bend into the engine and sit there, and damage can occur whether they do or not.

Presuming that the bar is sitting enough distance from the engine that it doesn't contact it in any kind of normal riding use, I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Godfrey said:
It's hard to tell from the photo. The bar is quite close but it clears. If you wanted to bend it out a little bit, I think you'd find it would take quite a lot of force to make it move at all.

In my experience, it's better that it sits close to the engine. The problem is that, if there's a good bit of space between the bar and the engine, the force of the bike hitting the bar on the ground can cause it to bend and pick up a good bit of speed in those milliseconds such that it then smacks into the cylinder with enough force to cause damage by itself. If the bar is close the engine, on the other hand, it might deflect that short distance and just lay against the cylinder, absorbing the blows without any further damage to the cylinder. In most of the get-offs I've seen where these bars that are supposed to protect the engine actually defect enough to hit it, the ones that are close to the engine show less damage to the bike than the ones that stand off a further distance.

Most of the damage avoidance they provide, actually, is in simple drops and fall overs in parking lot situations. And in those situations, the guard bar rarely hits the ground with enough force to move at all: It just prevents the blow from being taken by the engine or cylinder head cover. In higher speed crashes, they only rarely do much besides bend into the engine and sit there, and damage can occur whether they do or not.

Presuming that the bar is sitting enough distance from the engine that it doesn't contact it in any kind of normal riding use, I wouldn't worry about it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for such a considered response! You have put my mind at rest.
 
I have the same bars, same issue. Additionally though the alignment of the bolt holes was a real problem. Much cursing and grunting but got them on in the end. Wouldn't want to be without them. Agreed, if you take a big crash, a bit of steel wacking the cyl heads/rocker covers/block is probably of minor concern in the scheme of things!
 
Glad to hear you got them on in the end. The vendor confirmed with Agostini that the offset is intended and that they have crash-tested them. He also thinks they use them on their hire bikes. Happily mine have yet to be called into action. I got them dealer-fitted from new so avoided any fitting issues.
 
I'm looking into crash bars for my V7, does anyone know if the GIVI TN8202 Crash Bars "work" and "fit" better than the Agostini Crash Bars or vice/versa for a 2018 V7 III Carbon?
I have read about the offset engine head clearance on the left and right sides and horn removal / replacement?
Looking for more fit and finish than to modify, although if necessary I am open to it.
 
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